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To: D-fendr
>>Isn't that a violation of your previous position that it was every Christian's task to "…determine what is scripture or revelation, what is the correct translation and meaning of same and from this what are the correct beliefs…"?<<

No, I don’t think it is. Not all are called to the same purpose. Some are given different talents than others. Not all have been given the same desires or skills. Not all are called to leadership of other positions.

>>If, for example, "they are fervent in that belief" because it's what their teachers taught them and what their family and social group support, aren't they then relying on others, going with the crowd, etc?<<

Yes they are and it’s a dangerous place to be. One needs only look at the obvious examples of Waco, Jerry Jones etc. They weren’t putting their faith in Jesus as much as they were the leaders. I believe it’s the same with Catholics and many Protestants or of any faith for that matter. The put their full faith and trust in what the leadership is telling them.

BTW It's midnight here and I'm heading to bed. I enjoyed the discussion.

4,063 posted on 12/14/2011 9:12:25 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Not all are called to the same purpose.

Yes, but your position is that *all* Christians are tasked with… not some according to their talents, but all.

Your argument seems to be heading straight for "but that is of no consequence in cases where they arrive at my beliefs by any method, even wrong and dangerous ones." ;)

Yes they are and it’s a dangerous place to be.

But they are in the same place you said was salvation. [cf: "I believe they are saved."]

I'm pushed to ask now, on closer examination, is this task really just very important for you and not for others? This is where I'm left given your statements.

If all your previously stated requirements for arriving at truth are now waived if the person happens to share your conclusions (and thus get your approval as far as their salvation theology), how am I to avoid the revelation that what you are describing here is reduced to just your search to find the true Christian Faith -- with those who agree with your results, by whatever means or no means, included by you as part of the true Church -- as determined by you?

I.e., what started out as important objective requirements for all Christians seems reduced to all-important subjective results, that they be the same as yours.

I'm off to sleep and have enjoyed the discussion as well.

God bless...

4,064 posted on 12/14/2011 9:46:03 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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