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To: CynicalBear

****RCC is not His church.****

Truly this is nothing more than the opinion of an admittedly fallible person who cannot show where the Catholic Church is disconnected from the one which came out of the catacombs.

There is no time at which one can point and say, this is where the NT church ended and the (Roman)Catholic Church began unless one completely ignores history and the witness of the first few generations of Christians following the Apostles.

There seems to be two camps of protestantism, the first, who adhere to the pretense that Constantine created the Catholic Church and the second, who adhere to the pretense that Christ established no visible church with an organizational hierarchy and unified doctrine of beliefs and practices.

Both are equally wrong and have been injurious to the true body of Christ.

There is clear organization in the NT, clear adherence to a unified doctrine as proclaimed and preached by the Apostles and leaders of the Church, and clear community worship and breaking of the Bread.

And no where in the first two or three or four or five centuries all the way to the present is there an end of that organization, that doctrine or that community worship.

One Bread, One Body, One Faith, One Lord of all. One Church.


2,598 posted on 12/04/2011 3:42:31 PM PST by Jvette
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To: Jvette

For the first several centuries the only other groups of “Christians” that were outside the Catholic Church were the Gnostics who believed in a completely different set of scriptures.

Ones even the Evangelicals would have a hard time accepting unless they are of the Dan Brown variety.


2,600 posted on 12/04/2011 3:45:02 PM PST by rzman21
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To: Jvette
>>And no where in the first two or three or four or five centuries all the way to the present is there an end of that organization, that doctrine or that community worship.<<

It actually doesn’t matter. Error is error. Even if one could follow written documentation from one generation to another of church leadership the errors that have been creeping in since roughly 200AD are contrary to scripture. You can scream from the housetops professing succession but it wouldn’t matter. When men go astray from original scripture it becomes an abomination to God. Israel has a longer continuing succession of genealogy then the RCC will ever hope to have and there was still a falling away and we now see them being forsaken by God until the “time of the Gentiles” ends. The Israelites began pagan practices many different times and were punished by God. Longevity and succession does not make the RCC right.

2,604 posted on 12/04/2011 4:06:34 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Jvette; rzman21

Continuity before during and after the canon of Holy Scripture.

We can read St. Paul, Justin Martyr and see the same Church same catholic (universal) belief. And follow this without break up today.

If the argument is the Church went wrong, as in the Mormon assertion, then precisely where? St. Paul? The catacombs? Nicea? And where then was the Church, the One Bread, One Faith, One Church for 1600 years?

And what then of Christ’s promise for the continuance of His Church.

Without internal self-contradiction it is impossible to proclaim what has become the multiple faiths of the Reformation is the same as the Church in Scripture or afterward.

Scripture, history or both must be twisted to prop up their view.


2,606 posted on 12/04/2011 4:25:23 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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