Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow
A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.
Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.
I’m not.
It is something that has stuck and become the norm over the years. It is an American thing that is not used either by the Church officially or in other countries.
Whatever, I do not shy away from it and only bring it up because some here seem to think they can use it to prove that the Church today is not the Church of the NT or of the last nearly 2,000 years.
History proves that to be untrue.
“To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.”
It is their Waterloo.
Well. It gets personal when the Catholic Church is referred to as a “cult” and Catholics get accused of idolatry. Not to mention Quix’s use of snarky cartoons.
Good, otherwise I would have worried about you all night:)
This is it for me tonight.
May God grant you all a safe and restful night.
Graetz is wholly discredited, and has been for a long, long time. From your own source:
In 1871 Heinrich Graetz, drawing on Mishnaic and Talmudic sources, concluded that there must have been a late 1st century Council of Jamnia which had decided the Jewish canon. This became the prevailing scholarly consensus for much of the 20th century, but from the 1960s onwards it came increasingly into question. In particular, later scholars noted that none of Graetz's sources actually mentioned books that had been withdrawn from a canon, and questioned the whole premise that the discussions of the rabbis were about canonicity at all.
And the Dead Sea Scrolls, with a very few exceptions, tend to support the Jewish notion, being for the large part a proto-masoretic collection. The very idea of 'canon' is a Greek/Roman (pagan) construct. The Jewish 'canon' would be the Torah, which is held paramount even against the rest of the Tanakh.
So you are siding against Christ with a Jewish synod that anathematized the same Septuagint scriptures that the Apostle Paul used to prove the divinity of Christ to the Bereans. Kind of ironic. ROME DID NOT CHANGE THE OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES. HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO CITE THE ANCIENT CANONS. The Council of Carthage decreed in the year 419
I find it HIGHLY unlikely that Paul, a student at the feet of Gamaliel, and quite likely a member of the Sanhedrin, was using anything but Hebrew scriptures. Again, the DSS puts to shame the idea that anything but Hebrew was being used within the Temple precinct, and calls into serious question the idea that Hebrew was a dead language at all in the first century. Rather that it was a living language, and quite likely used among the general public.
The Ethiopian Jews, for example, consider those books you and the Palestinian Jews consider "apocryphal" to be part of the Bible. http://biblescripture.net/Canon.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls#Significance_to_the_Canon_of_the_Bible
So what? Ethiopia naturally looked to Alexandria. No one would dispute that the official Hebrew Scriptures and the authority for them was undoubtedly Jerusalem.
It is not unusual when one group of believers spawns from another for both to condemn the other in the harshest terms possible, e.g. cult, anathema, apostate, Satanic, heretic. Such terms and beliefs often become part of the official documents of the sect and should be expected on "open" Religion Forum threads which are in a town square format.
If that style of debate bothers you then ignore the "open" RF threads and instead post to the RF threads labeled "prayer" "ecumenical" "caucus" or "devotional."
It is forbidden for Jones (let us say) to congratulate Smith on the success of his (Smith's) efforts.
Or so it seems to me.
Evangelicalism rejects the role of human reason in faith. So does Islam.
Pope Benedict observed the latter in his Regensburg address.
But for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality.” Here Khoury quotes a work of the noted French Islamist R. Arnaldez, who points out that Ibn Hazn went so far as to state that God is not bound even by his own word, and that nothing would oblige him to reveal the truth to us. Were it God’s will, we would even have to practice idolatry.
Welllllllllllll
The RC’s started it in the beginning on FR.
And have continued it to this day.
It’s QUITE OK for the RC’s to call Proddy groups cults.
But they ABSOLUTELY CAN’T STAND the favor being returned.
What an unsurprise.
It’s all quite in keeping, of course with the following Stations of the
STATIONS OF THE WHITE HANKY so hallowed in the halls of the Vatican cult:
BTW, personal has to do with an INDIVIDUAL.
Groups e.g. INSTITUTIONS and groups of non-listed members are NOT personal per the rules of the RF. Please keep up.
STATIONS OF THE WHITE HANKY:
1. Icon to bearing false witness
2. Black/white icon of duplicity, double standard dance
3. The icon of the ivory handled dagger—honoring the doctrine of—WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, KILL THE MESSENGER.
4. Icon of the golden gymnast back-flipper—to honor the doctrine of CHRONICALLY CHANGING THE SUBJECT.
5. Icon of the marble statue of peanuts pigpin throwing dust in the air—in honor of the doctrine of OBFUSCATIONS TO THE SUPREME DEGREE.
6. Icon of the RUBBERIZED BIBLE.
7. Icon of the rubberized HISTORY TEXTS.
8. Icon of the rubberized DAFFYNITIONARIES.
9. Icon of the rubberized ‘LOGIC’ TEXT.
10. Icon of the 6.66” ivory nose stuck high in the air—in honor of the doctrine of HUBRIS TO THE SUPREME DEGREE.
11. Icon of the golden groping hand—groping for any explanation but the truth
12. Icon of the teak wood flip-flops from Hawaii in honor of the doctrine the holy flip-flops in word meanings and arguments
13. Icon of the gold bishop’s ring with the hidden poison pill well in honor of the doctrine to the kill-the-messenger-in-worshipful-behalf-of-Ishtar-Mary strategy
14. Icon of the gilded ivory halo in honor of the fantasized divine right, to be correct, pristinely sanctified & perfectly flawless in all respects in all cases all the time, regardless.
15. Icon of the marble bust of John Skerry in honor of the doctrine of CHRONIC AND OBSESSIVE INCONSISTENCY.
16. Icon to the RC Ashteroth-Mary Goddess cult’s rabid clique trolling ritual
17. Icon of the gilded ivory nose with olive branch surround in honor of the doctrine of the undivine right of TERMINAL SNOOTINESS TO THE MAX.
18. Icon of the slippery golden dance shoes for dancing the rationalizing-weasel-word-jitter-bug.
19. Icon of the gilded ivory AK47 in behalf of RC rabid clique drive by shootings at Proddys on blogs far and wide.
20. Icon of the golden thumb suck in honor of RC’s religious duty to be terminally offended 24/7/365.
21. ICON of the silver figurine of the lofted tail of a skunk in honor of NAUSEATING NASTINESS in the faithful SERVICE OF the caricatured Magnificent Magical Mummy Ashteroth-Mary Goddess.
22. ICON of the golden sharp stick—in honor of the Religious Duty Of Obligation to poke a sharp stick into the nearest Proddy’s eyes or gut and then to run wailing and whining at top frequency and top volume to the nearest authority when the Proddy dares to have a response.
23. ICON of the gold Pied Piper flute—in honor of the PIED PIPER MAGICSTERICAL leading the sheeple lemmings over the cliff of sanity, Christianity and inanity.
24. ICON of the tiny gold Rube Goldberg Perpetual Motion Machine model in honor of The Vatican RELIGIOUS OBLIGATION of being Perpetually Offended.
25. ICON of the tiny gold thread embroidered FUNNY HAT in honor of The Order Of The Proud & Sacred Funny Hats
26. ICON of the golden spell-check button in honor of PRISSY PONTIFICATIONS about poor Proddy spelling and majoring in minors and minoring in majors as major dogma of the Vatican Cult.
27. ICON of the tiny golden whining siren in behalf of the sacred call to whine 24/7/365 or whenever within 200 feet of a Proddy.
28. ICON of the golden GET-OUT-OF-GUILT-FREE card patterned after the Monopoly Get Out of Jail Free card—to be used any time an RC wants to sentence a Proddy to a post pull or banning for what the RC loves to do routinely.
I find it HIGHLY unlikely that Paul, a student at the feet of Gamaliel, and quite likely a member of the Sanhedrin, was using anything but Hebrew scriptures.
>>All of the OT citations in St. Paul’s writings derive from the Septuagint.
"The RC’s started it in the beginning on FR."
This claim is a falsehood.
I never called Protestants cultists. Maybe heretics. But not cultists.
Let it go. If you want a give and take. I’m game, but let’s make an effort to be civil here. If you want to be childish, you will get it in return.
Some groups like the Westboro Baptist Church are cultists, but certainly not the vast majority of Protestants.
Calling the Catholic Church a cult is a fighting word. I’d like to see FR ban it because it does nothing to promote dialog or an exchange of ideas.
I’d also like to know what other Catholics on FR think.
Sounds good.
I’d agree about the Wesboro group.
Jesus didn’t die to put us back into bondage. He set us free from the Law.
>>Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die, right?
By Jesus’ own words he came not to destroy but to fulfill the Law. What he he brought was foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures and would be the final outworking of the Law.
The Law was a covenant, a contract that called for the nation of Israel to become a nation of kings and priests.
The NT explains how that covenant is going to be completed or fulfilled.
Oh, but calling others *heretics* is OK?
You know, nobody is forcing you to participate on these threads. If you don't like the tone, there are other options, like staying off them.
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