Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow
A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.
Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.
Didn't say it did, raz.
But as you admit “My way of interpreting their interpretations is governed by my own cultural traditions, just as yours is.” Your cultural tradition starts with a presumption of egalitarianism ala America and a knee-jerk anti-Catholicism. Consequently, if Catholics believe A you believe B.
There you go again, thinking you KNOW what I believe. I believe, and have stated so numerous times on this forum, that a great many things I agree with the Catholics. They did, at one time, hold to the same truths taught by the Apostles who in turn enscripturated those very same truths. Where a religion holds to those truths, I agree with them.
Protestants cut the cord of Christianity’s organic development out of Judaism. Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy cannot be understood without understanding pre-rabinnic Judaism. This is especially true of the Ethiopian Church, which largely converted from Judaism to Christianity.
I completely REJECT your assertion. You seem to be forgetting that what you casually refer to as Protestantism came about FROM the orthodox faith. Need I remind you that the early reformers were almost to a man Catholics? How could you presume Protestants do not honor the same Judeo/Christian heritage? I studied the Old Testament as well as the New, so I believe this is a "knee-jerk" reaction you have to anything that isn't hardcore Catholic. That word at one time MEANT universal but it has lost that meaning NOT at the fault of Protestants.
Tell ya what, I'm done hashing the same topics back and forth with you. It is obvious that you have no interest in learning or even hearing other views. You seem to be too busy labeling people and defining everyone else as some kind of heretic or another to actually engage in dialog. I hope you find the truth. Good night.
Stop worshiping your grandmother.
I never did.
Never have.
Never will.
BTW, they are both already in Heaven.
Try again. That was a big fail.
I completely REJECT your assertion. You seem to be forgetting that what you casually refer to as Protestantism came about FROM the orthodox faith. Need I remind you that the early reformers were almost to a man Catholics? How could you presume Protestants do not honor the same Judeo/Christian heritage? I studied the Old Testament as well as the New, so I believe this is a “knee-jerk” reaction you have to anything that isn’t hardcore Catholic. That word at one time MEANT universal but it has lost that meaning NOT at the fault of Protestants.
>>The Radical Reformation whose heritage your views seem to embody came about through the rejection of historic Christianity and even the rejection of the magisterial reformers like Luther and Calvin.
Your forebears created a new religion. If it bore any resemblance to Judaism, it was the rabbinical Judaism that was prevalent the 16th or 17th century in Northern Europe.
Rabinnical Judaism has very little in common with how Judaism would have been practiced in Christ’s era.
Well, you studied the Old and New Testament through the prism of the assumptions of the Radical Reformation. If you had been an Orthodox Jew chances are you would have had a completely different take.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/
Early Catholicism (I’m referring to the early Semitic/Hellenistic variety rather than the Western scholastic version you are accustomed to.) arose from the traditions of Hellenistic Judaism, which differed in many ways from modern Rabbinical Judaism.
Frankly, having dialoged with Orthodox Jews, Eastern Christianity has far more in common with Judaism than either Protestantism or Western Catholicism.
If you want to understand Orthodox/Catholic worship, you have to delve into the sacrifice of the lamb book of Revelation and into the Jewish temple. The reminders of the temple are far clearer in Eastern Christian worship than in the post-Reformation West.
Everything we do is symbolic of imagery from the Book of Revelation. That’s why our priest wear vestments, etc. The Semitic Churches of the Middle East still draw a curtain during the most solemn point of the liturgy.
Visit a Coptic Orthodox or a Syriac Orthodox parish sometime because they have more faithfully retained the essence of primitive Christian worship than any other Christian bodies.
I’m sorry but I stand by my perspective that the Radical Reformers created a new religion out of their imaginations of what the early Church was like. They engaged in serious eisegesis that began with the rejection of all things Catholic.
For crying out loud the early Lutherans saw themeselves as Evangelical Catholics. Lutheranism and possibly orthodox Anglicanism has far more in common among the Protestant sects with early Christian worship and practice than the Reformed or the Radicals.
You seem to be too busy labeling people and defining everyone else as some kind of heretic or another to actually engage in dialog.
>>The feeling is mutual. Trouble is. I’ve heard views of people such as your own my entire life. How could I have avoided it growing up in a Protestant household with a Fundamentalist uncle who would come over to my house spewing fire and brimstone.
Not to mention, all of my friends in college were Evangelical Protestants. I thought over the arguments you have been presenting almost 20 years ago and decided that they were incomplete and/or erroneous.
The rot of the mainline Protestant denominations into liberal apostasy, which actually began with the rise of Pietism in the 17th century, shows Protestantism’s fruits.
Matthew 7:16.
Protestantism’s bitter fruits have been felt within the Catholic Church since the rise of Jansenism in the 17th and 18th centuries and Modernism in the 19th-21st centuries.
Conservative Protestants use the same arguments as the liberals, but arrive at opposite conclusions.
Maybe you should take the next step and burn all of the photos you have because they are graven images.
Why do Old Order Amish not like having their pictures taken?
Old Order Amish and Mennonites forbid photography of their people, and their objection is based on the second commandment, Exodus 20:4: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
You just aren’t doing it right. Quix, you really should think about becoming Amish because you aren’t strict enough.
You can leave it, you know...
They might conflate the various St. Johns and consider him an earlier Harold Robbins writing naughty fiction.
Keep your hands to yourself.
They're not Chinese. They worship the god in the mirror.
Here you go again....telling untruths. I never claimed to be infallible. And btw, I'm far from ignorant when it comes to matters of faith.
In all of my Catholic schooling we were discouraged from reading the Bible but were taught from the catechism daily. In fact, we had to memorize, not Scripture, but catechism questions and answers. Reading the Bible was discouraged by the nuns.
That quote is right on. The people really need to take that to heart. Truth be known, I think the tendency to study “church catechism” is strong in whatever church organization one belongs to. I have found that if it can’t be proven by scripture it leads farther and farther away from Christ.
Thanks boatbums. Yes, my Grandmas were very special ladies in my life but I don’t revere them the way I do Jesus. Because of them, I have life on this earth but because of Jesus, I have eternal life. Huge difference.
Excellent post.
Hits all the key points.
Jesus is the fulfillment of the OT, the only Word which gives life. The one sacrifice that takes away the sins of the world.
All that came before Him was in preparation for Him.
Just as He came truly in the flesh, flesh which suffered for our redemption, He is truly in the Eucharist.
“Man does not LIVE by bread alone, but by every word which proceeds from the mouth of God.”
Jesus is the Word which is the Bread of Life.
These are the mysteries of our faith. We cannot know how God has done these things, but we trust in Him who created all things and in whom all things continue to exist.
****I don’t believe Jesus needed to make a “disclaimer”.****
Let me ask you this then....
Many who heard what Jesus said walked away and Jesus let them knowing why they left. But, He does not turn to the Apostles and disciples who remained and then explain.
No, He admits this is a “hard saying” and asks them if they too will leave. The Apostles never question this, though they must have been very concerned, for it was a hard saying and a hard thing to grasp.
But, they knew Jesus and had walked with Him and believed Him. They knew that He would reveal how this was to be and He did at the Last Supper.
The Apostles seemed to get it. Paul warns against receiving Him unworthily or without discerning the Lord. He also says, “As often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord, until He comes in glory.”
It is obvious from the NT that the Christian community met often to “break bread” and that the receiving of it was reserved for those who believe.
I understand what you believe and why, but I trust the words of the Apostles and there is no where in the NT where anyone says the Lord’s Supper is symbolic. Not even Jesus.
Paragraphs are your friends.
Insert a HTML paragraph marker where you want to make the breaks.
HTML Sandbox 2011
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2650195/posts
Be consistent. If we’re to eat His literal, actual, physical body and blood, when he says we’re going to live forever, we ought to be doing it here on this planet in the literal, actual, physical bodies which literally, actually ate the body and blood.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.