Posted on 11/18/2011 6:13:09 AM PST by Alex Murphy
....in a city more often associated with Calvin Klein, John Calvin's teachings provide a basis for hope. In his commentary on II Corinthians 8, the 16th-century Swiss theologian connected Christians' assurance of salvation with their freedom to give to the poor: "What makes us more close-handed than we ought to be is when we look too carefully, and too far forward, in contemplating the dangers that may occur—when we are excessively cautious and careful—when we calculate too narrowly what we will require during our whole life, or, in fine, how much we lose when the smallest portion is taken away. The man that depends upon the blessing of the Lord has his mind set free from these trammels and has, at the same time, his hands opened for beneficence."
ping for later
Presbyterian PCA (not PC-USA) Bump!
The distinction will be lost on (if not deliberatedly obfuscated by) many.
They only think that they are choosing to deliver meals to the poor; it was predestined, they had no choice but to deliver meals. :)
Why did Calvin preach “hope of salvation” when there were people predestined to Hell according to his theology?
I was religiously liberal for a long time and always condemned Calvinism. Once I joined a conservative Presbyterian Church, however, I began to understand the practical side of Calvinism. In this post, I won’t argue the supernatural points, but just the side that helps people in this life.
One of the keys is that we are all sinners and in need of a savior. If everyone starts with that idea, people ask “how can I be a better person?” instead of “please tell me how great I am.”
Once a church rejects the idea of total depravity, it tends to descend into the minister praising the congregation. The congregation then doesn’t do anything to improve themselves and the results are usually horrendous.
Some traditional synagogues and Catholic churches teach a doctrine similar to total depravity, and therefore also get good results. Flattering the congregation is such a tempation from the pulpit, so it’s important to have doctrines that discourage that.
Good question. According to Calvin, you will either go to hell or not, and nothing you think, feel or care about matters. God decided if you were going to hell before he created the world...
Because even the Apostles had no idea who God's elect were. Some might have been in the audience and not realized it until the heard him speak. Are you among that group?
“Once a church rejects the idea of total depravity, it tends to descend into the minister praising the congregation. The congregation then doesn’t do anything to improve themselves and the results are usually horrendous.”
Not true. Total depravity says man cannot respond to God at all unless God first regenerates them, which conflicts with the command to “Repent and believe” - and “that by believing you may have life in his name.”
I’m saying Calvin said that. Even Paul said it is destined for us to die then the judgment. As for me, I put myself in Yashua’s hand.
As I wrote to dutchboy88 I’ve put myself in Yashua’s hand and there I’ll be for all eternity. Calvin or no Calvin.
Calvinists are a blight on Christianity.
I’m still pretty new to Christianity, so I will just have to yield to the knowledge of others on theological points. In short, sorry if I got it wrong and I defer to your knowledge. But would you agree that the preaching of total depravity keeps a congregation from getting smug?
Glad you mentioned that. The PCA believes Marriage is between one man and one woman under God (Only). That Elders and Ministers are to be Male. That Life begins at conception and that the Bible is the complete (Plenary), Authoritative and inerrant (in the original writings).
We split off the mainline Presbyterian church over the issue of giving Tithe money to communist rebels in Central and South America in 1973. But the biggest problem was denying the authority and inerrancy of Scripture. This and other problems.
I was in the PC-USA church for a couple of years until the minster ran off with the church secretary. The church wanted him back and ran off the wife!
At the same time, I was moving to Rockville Maryland and discovered Shady Grove PCA church. It was there that several elders patiently explained the five points of Calvinism, the absolute Sovereignty of God, and our foundation in the Westminster Catechisms.
It is a complete breath of fresh air in comparison to the Political Correctness in the PC-USA. The women enjoy their distinctive roles in the Women of Faith movement and they are free from gender confusions prevalent in the Liberal churches.
We are not having the homosexual issues having long ago marriage and pro-life planks solidly in the Book of Church Order.
If you are tired of the Political Correctness or otherwise, you are invited to join us at a PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) congregation: http://www.pcanet.org/
“Boxes of Love” sounds like a grand and Christ-honoring idea. I say “Go for it, and God bless you.”
If Total Depravity is true, then it should be taught.
In a sense it IS true...no man, left alone by God, will ever seek God. It requires God to seek us first:
“7For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” - Romans 5
It is a part of the amazing grace of God that God took the initiative, even after man rejected Him totally. That aspect of total depravity is true, according to scripture.
But while the Bible says we are dead in sin, it also describes us as blind, sick, lost, slaves, etc - all of which are words describing someone who, if offered healing, freedom, etc could take it.
“6The LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.” - Gen 4
In the great work, The Doctrine of Predestination by Lorraine Boettner, he describes the Calvinist viewpoint by contrasting it with the pagan idea of kismet. He points out that on a ship where someone has plunged into the briny, the ROP adherent declares says that it was their god's will the person drowns. But the Calvinist says, "perhaps it is God's will the person drowns, but also it might be God's will that I should save him. I shall try."
It is out of love and obedience to Our Father that we do good works for His creatures.
After Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit all mankind was doomed and their destiny, without God, was Hell. Do you not believe this is the case?
We also believe that mankind, through Adam and Eve's disobedience, was plunged into Spiritual death. This Spiritual death is described in detail in Romans 3, Psalm 14 and 53 (the duplicated Psalm). In reading Psalm 14 and 53 you will see that no one came to God on their own.
Thus God had to intervene or no one would have been spared the awe-full destiny by default that awaited them.
We in the PCA would ask folks to observe the use of the word "predestined" that occurs in scripture 6 times, the use of the word "adoption" which occurs 5 times and "elect" which occurs 19 times and tell us what you believe these words of Scriptures mean?
Thank you for the question.
I’m not Calvinist but I like that thought.
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