Posted on 11/01/2011 6:08:48 PM PDT by rzman21
No. True Baptists place their own subjective consciences over the scriptures.
I only need to point to the divide between the Calvinist and Arminian Baptists, and other subdivisions among the Baptist religion to make my point.
Theoretically you believe in just the scriptures, but in practice each Baptist is his or her own Church, magisterium, and Pope all rolled into one.
Show me where your sinner’s prayer or altar calls are, not to mention the rapture?
I’d say those are manmade traditions.
What about the citations of Enoch and the Testament of Moses in the Book of Jude?
Why don’t you add them to your Bible?
The Catholic Church is not a denomination.
BTW - what were the Deutercanonicals called prior to 1566?
“What about the citations of Enoch and the Testament of Moses in the Book of Jude?
Why don’t you add them to your Bible?”
For the same reason I don’t try to find the prophetic writings of some Cretan referenced in Titus. Jude is illustrating something, but doesn’t cite it as his authority.
Compare Jude:
9But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”...14It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, 15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
with Mark:
2 As it is written in Isaiah the prophet,
“Behold, I send my messenger before your face,
who will prepare your way,
3 the voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord,
make his paths straight,’”
As one who has studied both the New Testament and the Deuterocanonicals I am aware of many, many parallels, idioms and outright quotations. I'm afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree, but the contention that these 7 books and a number of additions to other Old Testament books were not included in any of the Jewish Canons, did not exist in Hebrew or Aramaic and were not familiar to Jesus and the Apostles is nonsense.
You should have asked me prior to 1566. ;)
Because honestly speaking you didn’t answer it directly why you didn’t believe in the Trinity. But ok, I’ll take it that you have your reasons. I wish you well
Fair enough!
But I always pictured ‘natural law’ as being old. You were not around in the times of the Romans?
Of course, I ought to be careful - lots of folks picture “Mr Rogers” as a corpse...
The Bereans Acts 17:11 "... received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.[1]", and many of them believed. --> these "scriptures" were the Septuagint only and maybe the Gospel of Mark and Matthew. The Gospel of John wouldn't be written for some more decades, and Acts hadn't been written yet, and neither any of the epistles.
So, in short, these folks were OT alone -- and nothing else. Is that only what's in your bible?
Furthermore, context, context, context, read the preceeding and following lines
| 10 As soon as it was night, the believers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. 12 As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men. |
| The Thesalonians | The key point about the jealousy of the Thesalonians is this:
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| The Bereans | As this article posted by bkaycee says
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The problem with these "home churches" in fact is that they lead to heresy as we see in the NT with the heresies I pointed out before
5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.and see Jn 20:21-23
..
9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.Jesus communicated this ability to the Apostles, as mediators
22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
In fact, if you may pray on behalf of a fellow Christian, why can't priests do that?
That's false as Anglicans and Lutherans have priests
Lutherans have their pastors and the Sacrament of Penance as well
So your statement is wrong -- "Protestants" do not reject this, only some non-Catholic groups.
In fact the ministerial priesthood is not only held by 75% of the Christian world today (Catholics, Orthodox, Orientals, Lutherans, Anglicans etc) but also was held by nearly all Christians prior to the 1500s.
I have been recently reading sermons from Holy Trinity LCMS church and these are very, very nice. I picked this up first on Holy Absolution. Lutheran on Absolution And when [Jesus] had said this, he breathed on [the disciples] and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” John 20:23
The church has given to her ordained ministers through the gift of the Holy Spirit the power and authority to exercise the apostolic ministry to bind and loose sin.1 Traditionally Luther’s Small Catechism included a section on the Office of the Keys, although not written by Luther himself.2 I note with regret that current editions of the Small Catechism from Augsburg Fortress have omitted any discussion about the Office of the Keys.
The third question on the Office of the Keys included in most every edition of the Small Catechism is: “What do you believe according to these words [John 20:22-23]? I believe that when the called ministers of Christ deal with us by His divine command, in particular when they exclude openly unrepentant sinners from the Christian congregation and absolve those who repent of their sins and want to do better, this is just as valid and certain, even in heaven, as if Christ our dear Lord dealt with us Himself” (my emphasis).3 When an ordained servant of Christ admonishes an unrepentant sinner, doesn’t speak God’s word of forgiveness, and believes excommunication is the only remedy left, Lutherans have traditionally believed that that admonition is a direct word from Christ himself. The pastor acts in the stead and command of Jesus Christ when exercising the ministry of the keys. The pastor’s word at that point is Christ’s word.
Our liturgical tradition has witnessed to the belief that the pastor speaks in the place of and with the full authority of the eternal Son of the Father. Thus we have the absolution spoken by the pastor in the rite of Confession and Forgiveness, “Cling to this promise: the word of forgiveness I speak to you comes from God. [Name], in obedience to the command of our Lord Jesus Christ, I forgive you all your sins.”4 And going back earlier within the tradition, the Service Book and Hymnal offers these binding words from the rite for Public Confession in preparation for receiving the Holy Sacrament:
On the other hand, by the same authority, I declare unto the impenitent and unbelieving, that so long as they continue in their impenitence, God hath not forgiven their sins, and will assuredly visit their iniquities upon them, if they turn not from their evil ways, and come to true repentance and faith in Christ, ere the day of grace be ended.5
From this theological and liturgical tradition within the Lutheran church, a pastor whose bound conscience belief in the Word of God that homosexual behavior is sin for the sake of pastoral care exercises the keys and binds that sin until repented. In doing so, that pastor speaks God’s own binding word upon such a person. His sin is not forgiven, neither by the pastor on earth nor by God in heaven. The Office of the Keys is exercised in this way so that a person might be convicted by the law and saved by the gospel. This is the ministry of the gospel and a fulfillment of the pastoral calling to be ministers of the Word. I must be painfully clear this concerns every unrepentant sinner and every unrepented sin. I only address homosexual behavior, because it is the issue upon which the ELCA now struggles and according to the bound conscience doctrine the keys are a valid and correct response to this sin and must be respected.
there is only ONE baptism, read Ephesians.
no where in the NT does it mention “water baptism”, this is a Baptist invention.
no where does the NT mention “Holy Spirit baptism”, this is a Baptist invention.
the NT only mentions “baptism”, the one baptism in Ephesians. the NT teaches baptism is for the remission of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit. very clear and the Church has taught this for 2,000 years starting with the Apostles all the way til the present day.
where does the NT talk about “water baptism signifying it in public”? chapter and verse please?
the blessed bread in the MASS is a participation in the Body of Christ. the bread in a baptist service is just bread.
the Mass is Calvary made present. One sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.
the problem is some have rejected orthodox Christian Faith for a new gospel, first introduced 16 centuries after the Church received authority from Jesus to make disciples by baptizing them and teaching them.
i look forward for the NT verses talking about water baptism, Holy Spirit baptism and that baptism is a public display of the salvation that has already occurred.
The Church teaches that he faithful exercise their baptismal priesthood through their participation, each according to his own vocation, in Christ's mission as priest, prophet, and king. Through the sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation the faithful are "consecrated to be . . . a holy priesthood." and The ministerial or hierarchical priesthood of bishops and priests, and the common priesthood of all the faithful participate, "each in its own proper way, in the one priesthood of Christ." -- there is no rejection of the individual priesthood of the believer, rather it is celebrated as part of the inherent, deep-rooted beliefs.
These were not the modern day equivalent of the "home churches" where folks pick up a bible and teach what they feel. The Churches were in building that happened to be homes -- large homes. As time went by they met in large basilicas (forum areas) as more became Christians
They met in large houses that had space
The problem is that the plenty of the new places teach false teachings and is not what happened among Early Christians who followed the teachings of Christ handed down through the Apostles -- in fact the only ones to not do so were those who twisted the words of scriptures as we see in Nicolaism and Elymas Bar-Jesus.
False again, the Church is called to unity. Denominations making up their own theology is unscriptural
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