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To: CynicalBear
From what I'm seeing much of the churches dogma, doctrines, whatever seem to be a reverting back to a system by which man could not live under which was the system of the temple priest, their own additional laws. rules, regulations, special conditions, etc. The early CHURCHES met in homes. By reading The Bible's account they were more like non Catholic worship we see today. It doesn't go into Peter for example doing any rites as such. Nor did he call himself father or pope. These men would have chastised being called such. They simply walked into a Temple, home, or any venue available and began preaching The Gospel. No services in a language likely one tenth even could understand. They went simply by The Great Commission.

How it went from that too having to do receptive masses etc and other rituals I don't know. Those are not traditions of GOD or Jesus Christ for Jesus Christ alone is our Priest we need to come too. He alone intercedes before the Father for us. Such other acts are tradiitions of man.

It's so sad GOD gave the perfect and very simple plan for mans salvation and man wasted not much time turning it into a traditional Old Testament boondoggle of rules and regulations equal to that of the Sanhedrin's ran Temples. Anyone who pulls out writings of ones beyond the Apostles and says Pope so and so said you must do this and pope so and so said and it must not be questioned but obeyed that type of teachings I hold suspect.

346 posted on 10/30/2011 11:03:36 AM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: cva66snipe
>> It doesn't go into Peter for example doing any rites as such. Nor did he call himself father or pope.<<

In fact, according to the Nicene fathers Peter never was a Bishop or Pope.

"Now concerning those bishops which have been ordained in our lifetime, we let you know that they are these:--James the bishop of Jerusalem, the brother of our Lord; upon whose death the second was Simeon the son of Cleopas; after whom the third was Judas the son of James. Of Caesarea of Palestine, the first was Zacchaeus, who was once a publican; after whom was Cornelius, and the third Theophilus. Of Antioch, Euodius, ordained by me Peter; and Ignatius by Paul. Of Alexandria, Annianus was the first, ordained by Mark the evangelist; the second Avilius by Luke, who was also an evangelist. Of the church of Rome, Linus the son of Claudia was the first, ordained by Paul [Anti Nicene Fathers, Volume VII, Book VI, Sec. IV, XLVI)Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Ante-Nicene Fathers: Volume VII:]

And according to Hippolytus the first Pope was Linus not Peter.

1. James the Lord's brother, bishop of Jerusalem.
2. Cleopas, bishop of Jerusalem.
3. Matthias, who supplied the vacant place in the number of the twelve apostles.
4. Thaddeus, who conveyed the epistle to Augarus.
5. Ananias, who baptized Paul, and was bishop of Damascus.
6. Stephen, the first martyr.
7. Philip, who baptized the eunuch.
8. Prochorus, bishop of Nicomedia, who also was the first that departed, believing together with his daughters.
9. Nicanor died when Stephen was martyred.
10. Timon, bishop of Bostra.
11. Parmenas, bishop of Soli.
12. Nicolaus, bishop of Samaria.
13. Barnabas, bishop of Milan.
14. Mark the evangelist, bishop of Alexandria.
15. Luke the evangelist.
These two belonged to the seventy disciples who were scattered by the offence of the word which Christ spoke, "Except a man eat my flesh, and drink my blood, he is not worthy of me." But the one being induced to return to the Lord by Peter's instrumentality, and the other by Paul's, they were honoured to preach that Gospel on account of which they also suffered martyrdom, the one being burned, and the other being crucified on an olive tree.
16. Silas, bishop of Corinth.
17. Silvanus, bishop of Thessalonica.
18. Crisces (Crescens), bishop of Carchedon in Gaul.
19. Epaenetus, bishop of Carthage.
20. Andronicus, bishop of Pannonia.
21. Amplias, bishop of Odyssus.
22. Urban, bishop of Macedonia.
23. Stachys, bishop of Byzantium.
24. Barnabas, bishop of Heraclea.
25. Phygellus, bishop of Ephesus. He was of the party also of Simon.
26. Hermogenes. He, too, was of the same mind with the former.
27. Demas, who also became a priest of idols.
28. Apelles, bishop of Smyrna.
29. Aristobulus, bishop of Britain.
30. Narcissus, bishop of Athens.
31. Herodion, bishop of Tarsus.
32. Agabus the prophet.
33. Rufus, bishop of Thebes.
34. Asyncritus, bishop of Hyrcania.
35. Phlegon, bishop of Marathon.
36. Hermes, bishop of Dalmatia.
37. Patrobulus, bishop of Puteoli.
38. Hermas, bishop of Philippi.
39. Linus, bishop of Rome.
40. Caius, bishop of Ephesus.
41. Philologus, bishop of Sinope.

(Hippolytus, Book XLIV; ON The Twelve Apostles Where Each OF Them Preached, And Where HE Met His End.)

Did you notice the first Pope listed? Did you also notice that Peter’s name is not even on that list?

361 posted on 10/30/2011 11:43:10 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: cva66snipe
It's so sad GOD gave the perfect and very simple plan for mans salvation and man wasted not much time turning it into a traditional Old Testament boondoggle of rules and regulations equal to that of the Sanhedrin's ran Temples. Anyone who pulls out writings of ones beyond the Apostles and says Pope so and so said you must do this and pope so and so said and it must not be questioned but obeyed that type of teachings I hold suspect.

The problem is men want to save themselves ...it is almost as if they think God is not able

414 posted on 10/30/2011 5:18:30 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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