Posted on 10/27/2011 4:05:56 PM PDT by rzman21
I challenge Evangelicals to put their interpretation of the Bible and their theology up against the acid test of what the Early Church Fathers taught.
Perhaps, Evangelicalism is closer to the truth than Mormonism, but it still has a long way to go.
Purpose
This Web page is dedicated to the defense of Catholic doctrines within Patristic thought. The Catholic rule of faith consists of three coordinate and complementary authorities: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the teaching Church. The Church Fathers used both Scripture and Tradition to explain and defend the Catholic faith. Corunum's mission is to present the outline of Catholic doctrines as they appear in the writings of the Church Fathers.
What you will Find Inside
Corunum Apologetic Web site does not contain a library of the writings of the Church Fathers. There are a host of sites on the internet which offer the Ante-Nicene Fathers(ANF) edited by Cleveland Coxe and the Nicene Post-Nicene Fathers(NPNF) edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace.(cf. ANF/NPNF ). Inside you will find testimony from the Church Fathers on various Catholic doctrines listed in chronological order.
"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out[through their office] the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch,Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2(A.D. 110),in ANF,I:89
Taught by St. Peter the Apostle
Against schism:
"Why are there strifes, and tumults, and divisions, and schisms, and wars among you? Have we not [all] one God and one Christ? Is there not one Spirit of grace poured out upon us? And have we not one calling in Christ? Why do we divide and tear to pieces the members of Christ, and raise up strife against our own body, and have reached such a height of madness as to forget that "we are members one of another?" Remember the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, how He said, "Woe to that man [by whom offences come]! It were better for him that he had never been born, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my elect. Yea, it were better for him that a millstone should be hung about [his neck], and he should be sunk in the depths of the sea, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my little ones. Your schism has subverted [the faith of] many, has discouraged many, has given rise to doubt in many, and has caused grief to us all. And still your sedition continueth." Clement of Rome[regn c.A.D. 91-101],To the Corinthians,46(A.D. 91),in ANF,I:17-18
Taught by St. Peter the Apostle
“We don’t assert that scripture interprets scripture.”
No, you most certainly don’t. Neither does the ELCA. Men sit in judgment of God either way. Funny coincidence, huh?
Not penguins?
Q: “If it interprets itself and there is one God, then why all of the 1,000s of divergent opinions among those who cling to Sola Scriptura?”
A: Sin.
The real answer is that Protestants shown their sin-weakened nature openly. Catholics hide it behind the skirts of the magisterium. But, make no mistake, both are fractured, because both are populated by the same critters ... us sinners. The history of Israel in the OT should be enough to instruct us in the truth of man’s weakness, corruption, and sin. But so often we look at their example and imagine that we will stand where they fell. Paul (by inspiration of the Holy Spirit) had something to teach us in that regard. Both sides disregard his warning at their peril.
lol! If only penguins could be taught to parrot phrases. The best of both worlds..
You can’t replace Dr. Eckleburg, nor will you ever be able to, so why don’t you quit trying?
Yes, I thinks the Bible needs to be interpreted. It doesn’t need to be added to; however, which is what a lot of tradition is.
As for my pastor’s knowledge, or my own, well we can read the Church Fathers, and the Bible on our own. And we can compare what we see in one with what we seen in the other. It’s not like the Church Fathers were divinely inspired, or that their writings are a part of the canon. Quite possibly they are mistaken in parts.
All I’m saying is that blindly accepting any authorities word that this is what God said, or meant, is to surrender our own God-given intelligence.
True, we might be led into error that way, but who is to say that over the centuries the Catholic Church has not been led into error?
I think that if we follow the lead of the Holy Spirit to the best of our abilities, we won’t go too far wrong.
bflr
None of your church fathers was taught by an Apostle...And here's what the Apostles said about your church fathers...
2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
And
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Yes it does...But not from any one from your religion...
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
1Jn 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:
We have the Teacher, living within us...Why would we go to some kook who wears a dress and red shoes who bows and prays to statues of Jesus' mother who tells you that he is the Holy Father???
We have the interpreter...
because you got a different answer than the other guy spouting the same “God told me” nonsense.
How nuts is that??? You don't have the oral word other than was written in the written word...And the written word was there long before any of your religious fathers showed up...
Of course you don't...That's why you guys can't discuss any more than the handful of scriptures your catechism latches onto...
LOL...
try me.
The Apostles did not write down every critical point or you could take us to the definitive chapter on trinitarian theology.
I agree...It seems so weird that modern day Catholics cling so to Augustine when he seems to be so,,, anti-Catholic...
God has never shown you anything in the scriptures and so the idea of God showing folks things in the scripture is nonsense...
I suspect God has shown even you things in scripture, but probably you didn't believe him...
It's difficult to discuss spiritual things with carnal people...
No, it's difficult to justify your subjective interpretation of scripture with people who don't share your particular preferences....
Which is why there are thousands of Protestant denominations.
The Apostles wrote down every critical point that God wanted us to have...And besides, God did not write on too many subjects, if any, that were completely defined in a singles chapter, or a single book...
Fact is, there is no definitive instruction on the Trinity in the scriptures...Your religion's guess on it's understanding of the Trinity is no better than some others...
Really? Where does the scripture say that? If you can't show a verse, then you are just making it up (and taking the name of the Lord in vain, I might add).
And besides, God did not write on too many subjects, if any, that were completely defined in a singles chapter, or a single book...
That is true, but I was spotting you by allowing for a simple scriptural answer that defines trinitarian theology when in point of fact without Church Tradition there would be NO cogent doctrine on the Trinity. No where in the New Testament do we see anything other than hints about trinitarian theology. So in point of fact, you are just reinforcing my position, not yours.
Fact is, there is no definitive instruction on the Trinity in the scriptures...Your religion's guess on it's understanding of the Trinity is no better than some others...
Again, that is precisely my point. If you go by scripture alone, there is no definitive instruction. Nevertheless, ALL legitimate Christian denominations subscribe to the exact understanding of the Trinity promulgated by the Catholic Church.
So even in their heresy, Protestants testify to the authority of the Catholic Church.
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