Posted on 10/27/2011 4:05:56 PM PDT by rzman21
I challenge Evangelicals to put their interpretation of the Bible and their theology up against the acid test of what the Early Church Fathers taught.
Perhaps, Evangelicalism is closer to the truth than Mormonism, but it still has a long way to go.
Purpose
This Web page is dedicated to the defense of Catholic doctrines within Patristic thought. The Catholic rule of faith consists of three coordinate and complementary authorities: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the teaching Church. The Church Fathers used both Scripture and Tradition to explain and defend the Catholic faith. Corunum's mission is to present the outline of Catholic doctrines as they appear in the writings of the Church Fathers.
What you will Find Inside
Corunum Apologetic Web site does not contain a library of the writings of the Church Fathers. There are a host of sites on the internet which offer the Ante-Nicene Fathers(ANF) edited by Cleveland Coxe and the Nicene Post-Nicene Fathers(NPNF) edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace.(cf. ANF/NPNF ). Inside you will find testimony from the Church Fathers on various Catholic doctrines listed in chronological order.
"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out[through their office] the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch,Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2(A.D. 110),in ANF,I:89
Taught by St. Peter the Apostle
Against schism:
"Why are there strifes, and tumults, and divisions, and schisms, and wars among you? Have we not [all] one God and one Christ? Is there not one Spirit of grace poured out upon us? And have we not one calling in Christ? Why do we divide and tear to pieces the members of Christ, and raise up strife against our own body, and have reached such a height of madness as to forget that "we are members one of another?" Remember the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, how He said, "Woe to that man [by whom offences come]! It were better for him that he had never been born, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my elect. Yea, it were better for him that a millstone should be hung about [his neck], and he should be sunk in the depths of the sea, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my little ones. Your schism has subverted [the faith of] many, has discouraged many, has given rise to doubt in many, and has caused grief to us all. And still your sedition continueth." Clement of Rome[regn c.A.D. 91-101],To the Corinthians,46(A.D. 91),in ANF,I:17-18
Taught by St. Peter the Apostle
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:44
words, words, words.......Christians love the Church and know it is the Body of Christ on earth. one can’t say they trust Jesus with one breath and then turn around and attack His Body with the next.
by their fruits you will know them.......
“......not the love of the truth.......”
how ironic you posted this verse!!
"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus (Alter Christus, anyone?), whom we have not preached, or if ye received another spirit (communion of the saints, anyone?), which ye have not received, or another gospel(7 sacraments for salvation, anyone?), which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." 2 Cor. 11:4.
How ironic that you would post “how ironic” to me. What is “the love of the truth” that saves? Do you have ANY idea?
He does not know the gospel that Christ preached or that Paul taught ..He is lost in Romes corn maze
OLofob, you don't appear to understand: you are not merely "wounded" in your sins. You are DEAD in your sins. Your works are dead, your "following Christ" is dead, your prayers for the dead and living are dead, your prayers to Mary to intercede are dead, your sacraments are dead, your rosary recitals are dead. And it's only the gospel of the grace of God that will give you life. That's the "love of Christ that saves."
Amen
Boy, that’s a lot of “anathema’s” for daring to think for yourself.
I notice that canon 9 contains the phrase *Roman Church*. Maybe someone forgot to tell them in those days that that is not acceptable.
Poor NL.. joins us on the accursed list
Now I ask you, who's the bigot? Who are the haters? Those who believe they align more with Muslims than Protestants. That's who.
Let’s make sure we are speaking the same vocabulary.
God the Holy Spirit is the person who regenerates the human spirit in the new believer. Immediately upon faith alone in Christ alone, it is God the Holy Spirit who regenerates the human spirit, not to be confused with either the human body or the human soul.
If somebody rejects the doctrine of regeneration, they simply haven’t matured in that facet of their walk with Christ. As soon as they accept Christ, by what God has provided, He is the one who regenerates, not the believer and not any man sprinkling or even immersing the believer underwater.
Immersion is a fabulous simile in that it also touches upon some perceptions similar to those of the spirit, but it isn’t the physical dunking that saves. It’s all the work of God, by His grace, that saves.
BTW, the title of Prophet is associated with one who speaks for God, while the term, Priest, is one who represents man to God. A false prophet is one who claims to represent God to other men but isn’t truthfully representing God.
Rejecting a particular doctrine or faith is not synonymous with false prophecy, but might be indicative of somebody who simply fails to accept what God provides.
It is still possible to be led by the Holy Spirit in any myriad of doctrines while not having yet been sanctified in another area of doctrine.
BTW, this actually was the root for the meaning of separation of Church and State. Believers in the 15th century recognized many different believers might be good men attempting to grow in obedience to both the laws of the Church and of the State, but some might not had been in His Plan at the same place, time, and stage of sanctification to be identical to their fellow believer. The separation of Church and State was to allow all believers to live in obedience to both the laws of God and of Men, the Church and the State, and continue to be sanctified by His Plan.
Unfortunately, we have had several generations of agnostics and antichristian thinkers who have misinterpreted the freedom of religion clause to mean liberty to worship God by any mechanism other than by that which God has provided. Their perversion of the doctrine is breeding an unholy fruit which will bear testimony for future generations that living independently from His Plan, is no life at all, but leads to grief and death.
We agree, one if not our most fabulous gift from Him is the regeneration of the human spirit by God Himself.
Rome can curse us all they want and it’s not going to have any effect on us. We have been set free and are not under bondage any more and it cannot inflict bondage on us because greater is He who is in us than He who is in the world.
And you can curse "Rome" all you want at its not going to have any effect either.
"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless." - Titus 3:9
I personally know many traditional Catholics who reject the lunacy of evolution. If anyone says that evolution has become a teaching of the Church, they are certainly in error.
So, do you believe in the Trinity?
No wonder as the sub-sub-sub-cults formed since then have left Christianity completely
to join the OPC, he must reject all of God's teachings and stop being a follower of Christ and become a follower of Calvin.
For Calvin teaches that one does not need to believe in Christ but one is part of an elite brahmin caste.
To become a member of the OrthodoPresbyterian Cult, one must throw out scripture and adopt the 14-page excerpted version of scripture with the colored pictures that the OPC believes in.
To become a member of the Orthodo PresbyterianCult, one must Acording to the OPC OrthoPresbyterianC: "Christians should not celebrate the Seder or other Jewish festivals. "
The followers of Machen, the OPC, disregard scripture where it calls men to repent, have faith, convert, and persevere. Instead they insist on some kind of non-scriptural preservation which is not only non-scriptural but also disagrees with the beliefs of their hero, St. Augustine who believed in perseverance of the saints, not preservation. Augustine did not believe in Calvin's understanding of the "perseverance of the saints,"
the OPC's theory that man can never lose his salvation, no matter what he does, so when they read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Galatians 5:19-21 the OPC believes that if anyone commits any such sin, there is no repentence for the followers of Calvin. Their deity will not take repentence, so the followers of Calvin will say that the person never was Christian at all!
To answer, they twist their weasel-words as
First between true and false conversion. The Bible recognizes that not everyone who says he believes in Christ really doesVoilą! (by the way, that means "see there" in French) -- the followers of Calvin-Machen use their rubber dictionaries to say "Oh, they never were Christian in the first place!"
Salvation of Infants Who DieThe OPC believes that God pre-damns infants to eternal hell. This isn't the Christian God of Love.
The Confession entertains the idea that at least some infants who die in infancy and some others "who are incapable of being outwardly called" are among the elect.
However, the Confession does not say that all such infants, etc., are saved.
| 12 “Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.’ 13 If I tell a righteous person that they will surely live, but then they trust in their righteousness and do evil, none of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered; they will die for the evil they have done. 14 And if I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ but they then turn away from their sin and do what is just and right— 15 if they give back what they took in pledge for a loan, return what they have stolen, follow the decrees that give life, and do no evil—that person will surely live; they will not die. 16 None of the sins that person has committed will be remembered against them. They have done what is just and right; they will surely live. |
| John 4:42 describes Christ as "the Savior of the world," 1 John 2:2 Christ "is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." 1 Timothy 4:10 God is "the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." |
Calvin's father, Gerard, was involved in some financial misdeeds and refused to provide the financial records to the Bishop of Noyon . Gerard was excommunicated for his misdeeds and later on so was his son Charles.
Gerard then made John Calvin leave his theological studies to become a French Lawyer, which is very apropos considering what John learned from his father. John's ever growing bitterness against the Church for the excommunication of his father and brother forced him to leave the Church altogether.
And now you know the roots of Calvinism and its bitterness.
| >What Calvin did was this. He took what is one of the oldest and most perilous directives of mankind, the sense of Fate. He isolated it, and he made it supreme, by fitting it, with the kneading of a powerful mind, into the scheme which Christian men still traditionally associated with the holiness and authority of their ancestral religion. God had become Man, and God had become Man to redeem mankind. That was no part of the old idea of Inevitable Fate. On the contrary, it was a relief from that pagan nightmare. We of the Faith say that the Incarnation was intended to release us from such a pagan nightmare. Well, Calvin accepted the Incarnation, but he forced it to fit in with the old pagan horror of compulsion: “Ananke.” He reintroduced the Inexorable. Yes, God had become Man and had died to save mankind; but only mankind in such numbers and persons as He had chosen to act for. The idea of the Inexorable remained. The merits of Christ were imputed, and no more. God was Causation, and Causation is one immutable whole. A man was damned or saved; and it was not of his doing. The recognition of evil as equal with good, which rapidly becomes the worship of evil (the great Manichean heresy, which has roots as old as mankind; the permanent motive of Fear) was put forward by Calvin in a strange new form. He did not indeed oppose, as had the Manichean, two equal principles of Good and of Evil. He put forward only one principle, God. But to that One Principle he ascribed all our suffering, and, for most of us, necessary and eternal suffering. Again, the Catholic Church had called the soul of man immortal. Calvin accepted that doctrine; but under his hands it becomes an immortality of doom, and for the few who shall have doom to beatitude, doom it yet is, as doom is is to the myriads for whom it shall mean despair. |
Ignatius' writings are known forgeries...You ought to consider how that makes you look by perpetuating those forgeries...
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