that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."
~ Martin Luther
Posted on 10/27/2011 4:05:56 PM PDT by rzman21
I challenge Evangelicals to put their interpretation of the Bible and their theology up against the acid test of what the Early Church Fathers taught.
Perhaps, Evangelicalism is closer to the truth than Mormonism, but it still has a long way to go.
Purpose
This Web page is dedicated to the defense of Catholic doctrines within Patristic thought. The Catholic rule of faith consists of three coordinate and complementary authorities: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the teaching Church. The Church Fathers used both Scripture and Tradition to explain and defend the Catholic faith. Corunum's mission is to present the outline of Catholic doctrines as they appear in the writings of the Church Fathers.
What you will Find Inside
Corunum Apologetic Web site does not contain a library of the writings of the Church Fathers. There are a host of sites on the internet which offer the Ante-Nicene Fathers(ANF) edited by Cleveland Coxe and the Nicene Post-Nicene Fathers(NPNF) edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace.(cf. ANF/NPNF ). Inside you will find testimony from the Church Fathers on various Catholic doctrines listed in chronological order.
"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out[through their office] the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch,Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2(A.D. 110),in ANF,I:89
Taught by St. Peter the Apostle
Against schism:
"Why are there strifes, and tumults, and divisions, and schisms, and wars among you? Have we not [all] one God and one Christ? Is there not one Spirit of grace poured out upon us? And have we not one calling in Christ? Why do we divide and tear to pieces the members of Christ, and raise up strife against our own body, and have reached such a height of madness as to forget that "we are members one of another?" Remember the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, how He said, "Woe to that man [by whom offences come]! It were better for him that he had never been born, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my elect. Yea, it were better for him that a millstone should be hung about [his neck], and he should be sunk in the depths of the sea, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my little ones. Your schism has subverted [the faith of] many, has discouraged many, has given rise to doubt in many, and has caused grief to us all. And still your sedition continueth." Clement of Rome[regn c.A.D. 91-101],To the Corinthians,46(A.D. 91),in ANF,I:17-18
Taught by St. Peter the Apostle
the one and only Sacrifice that is needed for the forgiveness of sins was the Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.
what non-Christians can’t or won’t understand is the Mass is the same Sacrifice. this is why the Church included the Book of Hebrews in the canon of Scripture.
Yes.
Only when it suits them. When it's necessary, Biblical literalist interpretation is demanded.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14
i think this verse is telling me it’s time to stop playing your games.
Funny about that, isn’t it?
There’s an appropriate Scriptural response or answer to every tradition of man the RCC puts forth.
you really shouldn’t be discussing this with me, the Church recieved the doctrine from the Apostles and has believed it for 2,000 years. non-Christians can’t understand it and attack us for it.
Jesus tells me to be glad and rejoice in such cases.
So what you’re saying is it’s like the movie Groundhog Day. There is no tomorrow. Like Janis Joplin said in Ball and Chain “It’s all the same *&!# day, man..” The day Christ died on the Cross was the day that continues on in perpetuity. And that’s what the Mass does daily. That day. ?
It really is not good to post on things one is ignorant on ...just looks dumb... long before the roman catholic church the NT church had almost a complete NT canon on which they agreed...
. Origen, named all the books of both the Old and New Testaments.... Turtullian,mentions all the New Testament books except 2 Peter, James and 2 John. in his work..
The scriptures were determined by the Holy Spirits inspiration to the NT church... long before trent.. which was where Rome finally closed their canon
LOL...
Now, would that be Jesus Christ, the actual Redeemer of mankind through His shed blood for the remission of our sins. Or would that be the Alter Christus, the “ANOTHER JESUS” who the RCC priests “become” when administering the Mass?
what just doesn’t look dumb, but actually is dumb, is thinking Tertullian and Origen weren’t Catholic.
like it or not ( and i know many HATE IT ) the canon of Scripture was set by the Catholic Church.
anyone accepting the 27 book NT, honors Catholic Sacred Tradition ( and they know it and HATE IT! )
Really??? There was no priesthood, no mass, no pope, no 7 sacraments, no prayer to the dead, no holy water,no vestments,no statues, no immaculate conception, no assumption, etc in the apostolic church ...those are the doctrines of men not God
Nope... no official Roman canon existed until Trent... as I said the early church had the NT long before Rome ...I would suggest your reading outside of Roman sources..ya might run into some true church history
Translation: We have nothing but fluff and puff. And you're catching on..I shall resort to victimhood status and claim to be rejoicing in it.
yes doctrines of men: Paul, Peter, John, Andrew, James, etc.
Christians call these men “the Apostles”
Christians have followed the doctrines of these men for 2,000 years.
there are those that follow the doctrines of men that appeared in the 16th century, they weren’t the Apostles.
Ohh do show me purgatory and relics and the priesthood and the immaculate conception and the assumption etc etc etc.. in their scripture..
The Roman church was built by Constantine and melting some christianity with paganism
LOL! like the “sources” who say Origen and Tertullian weren’t Catholic????
as i previously posted, often Christian doctrine isn’t defined until challenged. The Divinity of Jesus was challenged and the doctrine was defined at Nicea. Jehovah Witnesses use your “logic” when they say the Church made Jesus God at Nicea.
the canon was set by the Church in the 4th century, Trent restated it when certain Protestants challenged some OT books.
The Church was told by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 not to play the “sola scriptura” game and we haven’t for 2,000 years.
i see some people get their church history from Dan Brown, LOL!!!!! ( Poor old Constantine )
Christians have always believed the Roman Church was founded by Peter and Paul, at least that’s what Irenaeus wrote 150 years before Constantine was born. you might want to check his book out, it is appropriately titled for you: “Against Heresies” ( he is a little more reliable than Dan Brown, just not as helpful for your position! )
sorry for giving you the hat tip, i don’t want you to lose any “cred” from the lying club.
don’t worry, just post a thread saying Catholics worship:
1. bread
2. Mary
3. statues
4. or all of the above
and you will be back in their good graces!!
LOL!
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