Posted on 10/27/2011 4:05:56 PM PDT by rzman21
I challenge Evangelicals to put their interpretation of the Bible and their theology up against the acid test of what the Early Church Fathers taught.
Perhaps, Evangelicalism is closer to the truth than Mormonism, but it still has a long way to go.
Purpose
This Web page is dedicated to the defense of Catholic doctrines within Patristic thought. The Catholic rule of faith consists of three coordinate and complementary authorities: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the teaching Church. The Church Fathers used both Scripture and Tradition to explain and defend the Catholic faith. Corunum's mission is to present the outline of Catholic doctrines as they appear in the writings of the Church Fathers.
What you will Find Inside
Corunum Apologetic Web site does not contain a library of the writings of the Church Fathers. There are a host of sites on the internet which offer the Ante-Nicene Fathers(ANF) edited by Cleveland Coxe and the Nicene Post-Nicene Fathers(NPNF) edited by Philip Schaff and Henry Wace.(cf. ANF/NPNF ). Inside you will find testimony from the Church Fathers on various Catholic doctrines listed in chronological order.
"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out[through their office] the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch,Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2(A.D. 110),in ANF,I:89
Taught by St. Peter the Apostle
Against schism:
"Why are there strifes, and tumults, and divisions, and schisms, and wars among you? Have we not [all] one God and one Christ? Is there not one Spirit of grace poured out upon us? And have we not one calling in Christ? Why do we divide and tear to pieces the members of Christ, and raise up strife against our own body, and have reached such a height of madness as to forget that "we are members one of another?" Remember the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, how He said, "Woe to that man [by whom offences come]! It were better for him that he had never been born, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my elect. Yea, it were better for him that a millstone should be hung about [his neck], and he should be sunk in the depths of the sea, than that he should cast a stumbling-block before one of my little ones. Your schism has subverted [the faith of] many, has discouraged many, has given rise to doubt in many, and has caused grief to us all. And still your sedition continueth." Clement of Rome[regn c.A.D. 91-101],To the Corinthians,46(A.D. 91),in ANF,I:17-18
Taught by St. Peter the Apostle
So the great Athanasius claims your popes and priests must be Levites???
Hey, he and you have got the wrong religion...There are no Levites in the church...
Don't you ever check to see what God says about all this???
Now you are resorting to that???
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Do you ever think of this verse when you call your pope 'Holy Father'???
Of course there were multitudes of Christians who rejected your Eucharist and religion...The Bible condemns your religion...And the Bible has been here for 2000 years...
Hey thanks...
No, you stop with the Catholic heresy...Jesus' body died and was changed into a celestial body of some sort just as ours will be changed some day...
So according to your religion, Jesus DOES get re-murdered again, every day, all day long, by your priests...
"But this man, [Jesus] because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did ONCE, when he offered up himself." Hebrews 7:24-27, KJV
"But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in ONCE into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." Hebrews 9:11-12, KJV
"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now ONCE in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself . . . So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:24-26, 28, KJV
"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for all." Hebrews 10:10, KJV
"For as often as you eat this bread<\b> and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes."
Paul clarifies for you that it is BREAD. That is the word he uses, and it's the word I use.
That is the cult of cults...
When someone who has professes of being a former Catholic asks a question like that there is such a profound lack of credibility that discussions are not possible and responses are not deserved. Every first communion Catechumen is taught that the the Eucharist is not a re-sacrifice or a recreation of the sacrifice, but that it is a participation in the one sacrifice of Christ.
Remember, a lie is a falsehood represented as the truth and the truth presented as a falsehood. Corresponding with those who so willfully and consistently lie about the Church represent a near occasion of sin.
they that dwell upon the earth
God preserve us from the know-it-all children of the reformation.
Arguing with them is like arguing with teen-agers who just can't comprehend that those who disagree with them don't share their peccadilos and proclivities when it comes to hermeneutics.
We don't argue from silence. We just aren't arguing from scriptures, which is all Protestants will acknowledge despite the vast swaths of interpretive liberty they take in propping up sola scriptura.
Pray tell, where is the scriptural authority for the Protestant Reformation?
So how do YOU explain it? As Christ asked "If I cast out demons by Beelzebub, then by whom do YOUR children cast them out?"
Let’s look at what Jesus said to people who tried to venerate Mary....
Aside from the fact that he had not yet declared her mother of the Church, and thus "The Woman" of Genesis, we have the examples of John the Baptist, St. Peter, Abraham, and Solomon to show there is nothing inconsistant about Christ making such comments about heros of the faith.
Um. Yeah.
Forgive me if I’m rather less than impressed with Protestant facility in the Greek language. You guys are still trying to push the “big stone, little pebble” canard for Matt 16:18 despite some of your own best scholars likening that interpretation to a foreigner inferring “butterflies” are somehow related to dairy products.
If it was “just goofy” you’d be quoting verses instead of making yet another gratuitous assertion.
If it was “just goofy” you’d be quoting verses instead of making yet another gratuitous assertion.
Then why did it take 1600 years for you to find any of them?
So because your religion and the muzlims venerate the mother of Jesus even tho the bible says not to...
Sorry, I missed that verse. Where was that again?
Just because Peter wouldn't even consider allowing someone to bow to him doesn't mean that your popes can't allow it...Ya Right...
That's right. What part of us not treating the scripture as a book of laws to "keep score" of our piety, don't you get?
If bowing was more important than atitude, then why was Naaman the Syrian permitted to do so?
Gee! Who rewrote stuff, us or the guys that came 1600 years latet.....?
So you also use the fact that the Muslims venerate Mary as justification for doing so?
>>Aside from the fact that he had not yet declared her mother of the Church<<
And just when was it that Jesus did that?
In Matthew 16 Jesus is talking to all of the Apostles. They were all asked the question of who they thought He was. Though Peter was the one who answered for the group Jesus was talking to them all. When Peter said that they believed He was “Christ the Son of the Living God” Jesus replied and said that it was not flesh and blood that had revealed that to Peter but that it was “my Father which is in heaven”. He then says to Peter “and thou art Peter”, acknowledging that He knew who Peter was just as Peter knew who Jesus was. Then Jesus, referring back to “my Father which is in heaven”, says, “upon this rock I will build my church”.
In other places in scripture Jesus is referred to as the “corner stone”, but the rock that the church is build on is the Father.
If you want reference to God as the Rock here are some verses.
Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
2 Sam. 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."
Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."
Rom. 9:33, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed."
1 Cor. 3:11, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,"
1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."
1 Pet. 2:8, speaking of Jesus says that he is "A stone of stumbling and a rock (petra) of offense"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed."
Makes one wonder when it was that the RCC decided that God was no longer the “Rock” doesn’t it?
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