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To: freejohn
You've gone way beyond my pay grade on this one.

Not really, it's easy to explain on an example. Let's build a very simple Multiverse that conforms to the original requirements (that every combination of everything is.)

Our Universes will contain only two objects - the sky and the earth. The sky can be blue or green; the earth can be brown or yellow. We don't need to increase the complexity because as you will see it works the same way for any number of objects and any number of events on the timeline.

We will have exactly four Universes in our Multiverse:

  1. Blue sky, brown earth
  2. Blue sky, yellow earth
  3. Green sky, brown earth
  4. Green sky, yellow earth

That covers all possibilities that could mathematically exist in our simple Multiverse. You cannot add one more Universe to the set - it is complete.

As you see, the sky in our example can be of only one color or the other. It's to keep the list short :-) But this is also an example of a binary property: it can be this or that and nothing else. It has only two possible settings.

Now you see that existence of God is also a binary property. God may only exist or not exist. God can't partially exist or somewhat not exist. This property is equivalent to choosing between two colors of the sky.

Now go back and count what percentage of our Universes have blue sky? It's 50% - two out of four. Is it a freak occurrence? No, it's just math and logic, as we know them.

My GOD would Have to exist in ALL universes simply because he is or was the creator.

Not really. There are two possibilities, and none of them help you.

Possibility #1 says: God is local to a Universe, just like the sky's color. Some Universes have God, other Universes don't. If this is true then God will be present in half of all Universes, per our definition of the Multiverse. Your statement is incorrect.

Possibility #2 says: God is above a Universe; he resides above the collection of Universes. That's what you are hinting at. But then the existence of the Multiverse is irrelevant and you can't use it to prove existence (or non-existence) of God. That God could create one Universe just for us, or he could create two, or an infinite number of them. Your statement is not proven.

I can only go on what the Bible has to say and that is

That certainly doesn't hurt. However the Bible is not going into the cosmological details. Even if somehow Jesus would spell it all out, none in his audience would be able to understand him - and nothing of that would be written down decades after the fact. Bible was physically written by humans, and as such it contains only what humans could comprehend at that time (not much of cosmogony, that's for sure.) The only record of the creation is in the sky above us.

72 posted on 10/23/2011 7:13:48 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Greysard

I think the point when stated strictly from a logical standpoint is that if the God of Abraham exists, then there is necessarily only one universe.


79 posted on 10/23/2011 8:27:52 PM PDT by reasonisfaith (Sarah Palin: "I'm not for sale.")
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To: Greysard
However the Bible is not going into the cosmological details. Even if somehow Jesus would spell it all out, none in his audience would be able to understand him - and nothing of that would be written down decades after the fact.

Well I just think man can't see the trees thru the forest when it comes to what God chooses to reveal to man in the Bible.

An example is for years man thought the world was flat....science etc. debated all the "details" depending on what side of the issue they were on..... However, interesting is there's a scripture verse which reads..." He sitteth on the 'CIRCLE' of the world".....which would've indicated to any who might have seen that the world was indeed round. But they all missed it. Still it was there all that time.

80 posted on 10/23/2011 8:48:05 PM PDT by caww
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To: Greysard
Not really. There are two possibilities, and none of them help you.

Possibility #1 says: God is local to a Universe…

Possibility #2 says: God is above a Universe;

And why not a third possibility?

Possibility#3 says: The existence of God is common to and throughout the Universe or all the universes or the multi-verse, however you want to put it.

Your example of four Universes in a Multi-verse has things common among them. One thing is “color”. It manifests itself in different ways but it is still color. The other thing is “objects”, which manifests as sky and earth.

Because each of your Universes has sky and earth each intrinsically has objects, the sky and earth being a manifestation of the existence of objects.

Because each of your Universes has some binary combination of blue, brown, green or yellow each intrinsically has color in it, the blue, brown, green or yellow being a manifestation of the existence of color.

Is it such a leap to say that because each of your Universes has objects and color that God exists in each of them, the objects and color being a manifestation of the existence of God?

83 posted on 10/23/2011 9:33:19 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: Greysard
You are mistaking two things:

1) the "necessary" vs arbitrary existence / non-existence of God: God is by definition outside of ALL nature and therefore not an extensive property of any posited verse.

2) equal a priori probabilities for the existence of God.

Einstein may have objected to quantum mechanics on the grounds that "God does not play dice with the Universe"; but you are attempting to play dice with God.

Cheers!

251 posted on 05/16/2012 9:57:33 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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