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To: daniel1212; CynicalBear; smvoice; metmom; boatbums; caww
now you have a purgatory which contains souls which do not undergo the purification [run-on seemingly endless sentence follows]

The test is not yet purgatory. All go through the test, not all go through the burning off of the stubble, which is purgatory.

Scripture tell us most clearly that the postmortem condition of the believers is with the Lord

This is why purgatory is a logical necessity since "There shall not enter into it any thing defiled" (Apoc. 21:27).

964 posted on 10/30/2011 12:18:04 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex; CynicalBear; smvoice; metmom; boatbums; caww

>now you have a purgatory which contains souls which do not undergo the purification [run-on seemingly endless sentence follows]<

The “run on” you omit was a condensation from the CCC, as referenced, which more fully states that “All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.” (CCC 1030)

It was and is fitting to include it because this is the source you originally referenced as your authority, and i do not see a purgatory there with souls who have nothing to be purified by fire from.

The test is not yet purgatory. All go through the test, not all go through the burning off of the stubble, which is purgatory.

Thus “every man's work shall be manifest. For the day of the Lord shall declare it , because it shall be revealed in fire. And the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is,” (v. 13. DRB) means that every believer himself is burnt in the cleansing fire, but some go through unscathed, and thus this is not purgatory for them, but it is only those who need to take time in purgatory to burn off the "stubble" that experience purgatory. But which purgation process may not take place at the Second Coming (below), but merely reveals it?

>Scripture tell us most clearly that the postmortem condition of the believers is with the Lord<

This is why purgatory is a logical necessity since "There shall not enter into it any thing defiled" (Apoc. 21:27).

Now you are expanding this to a whole new level, i am only focusing on 1Cor. 3 here. But without turning this into an even longer thread, i will suffice to say that it is a a logical necessity for cleansing, which is what you do with things defiled, but what Scripture states is that every believer is washed, sanctified and justified by faith, (1Cor. 6:11) having been forgiven of all trespasses, (Col. 2:13) and thus are accepted in the Beloved, (Eph. 1:6) and positionally made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ. (Eph. 2:6)

While such justifying faith must be of a kind that will effect the “obedience of faith,” having things which accompany salvation,” (Heb. 6:9) and while such are to grow toward perfection in character, yet moral perfection and things which accompany salvation is not what justified the unGodly, or made him accepted in Christ, and a temple of God, and gave him access with boldness into the holy of holies, (Heb. 10:19) but this was all on Christ's account and merit, by His sinless shed blood and righteousness, to the glory of God.

Moreover, the place which Scripture points to as the place in which one grows in grace and overcomes is in this world, with its tests of affections and trials. A test is when you have an alternative, and it was on earth that man was tested, and where Christ himself was made perfect through sufferings, in being tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin.

Salvation by grace through faith, not works, is not by a faith that will not effect works, by neither is it one that means that by the grace of God i practically become good enough for Heaven. In one sense this is true, in that believers who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be delivered from this body of death, and be “clothed upon with our house which is from heaven,” (2Cor. 5:2) and then we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is, (1Jn. 3:2) being conformed to the image of his Son. (Rm. 8:29)

Trying to keep this together. From 958 to DB:

First, if the passage referred to the Second Coming of Christ as the time of the purgation, we would still have the concept of Purgatory intact, nmerely its application delayed.

Then 1Cor. 3 would not be not really be referring to purgatory, but the end result.

Secondly, I can see how "the day of the Lord" refers to the Second Coming, because indeed it is at the second coming that our deeds and the Glory of Heaven will be made manifest to all. From that it does not follow that the purgation process (as opposed to its manifestation to others) takes place at the Second Coming.

So 1Cor. 3, that being the day of Christ, the judgment seat of Christ, at the Second Coming of Christ, is purgatory in “application,” declaring the result of the actual purgation of dross of sins which commences at death?

I see this as being contrary to the description, which states that way the day shall declare it is by fire, which is when those who have inferior works will suffer loss, rather than that merely being the declarative result of testing.

At best, if there is a type of purgatory, then it can only be speculative, and 1Cor 3 in particular cannot be dogmatically defined as referring to it.

974 posted on 10/30/2011 5:53:08 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Our sinful deeds condemn us, but Christ's death and resurrection gains salvation. Repent +Believe)
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