>now you have a purgatory which contains souls which do not undergo the purification [run-on seemingly endless sentence follows]<
The “run on” you omit was a condensation from the CCC, as referenced, which more fully states that “All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.” (CCC 1030)
It was and is fitting to include it because this is the source you originally referenced as your authority, and i do not see a purgatory there with souls who have nothing to be purified by fire from.
The test is not yet purgatory. All go through the test, not all go through the burning off of the stubble, which is purgatory.
Thus “every man's work shall be manifest. For the day of the Lord shall declare it , because it shall be revealed in fire. And the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is,” (v. 13. DRB) means that every believer himself is burnt in the cleansing fire, but some go through unscathed, and thus this is not purgatory for them, but it is only those who need to take time in purgatory to burn off the "stubble" that experience purgatory. But which purgation process may not take place at the Second Coming (below), but merely reveals it?
>Scripture tell us most clearly that the postmortem condition of the believers is with the Lord<
This is why purgatory is a logical necessity since "There shall not enter into it any thing defiled" (Apoc. 21:27).
Now you are expanding this to a whole new level, i am only focusing on 1Cor. 3 here. But without turning this into an even longer thread, i will suffice to say that it is a a logical necessity for cleansing, which is what you do with things defiled, but what Scripture states is that every believer is washed, sanctified and justified by faith, (1Cor. 6:11) having been forgiven of all trespasses, (Col. 2:13) and thus are accepted in the Beloved, (Eph. 1:6) and positionally made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ. (Eph. 2:6)
While such justifying faith must be of a kind that will effect the “obedience of faith,” having things which accompany salvation,” (Heb. 6:9) and while such are to grow toward perfection in character, yet moral perfection and things which accompany salvation is not what justified the unGodly, or made him accepted in Christ, and a temple of God, and gave him access with boldness into the holy of holies, (Heb. 10:19) but this was all on Christ's account and merit, by His sinless shed blood and righteousness, to the glory of God.
Moreover, the place which Scripture points to as the place in which one grows in grace and overcomes is in this world, with its tests of affections and trials. A test is when you have an alternative, and it was on earth that man was tested, and where Christ himself was made perfect through sufferings, in being tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin.
Salvation by grace through faith, not works, is not by a faith that will not effect works, by neither is it one that means that by the grace of God i practically become good enough for Heaven. In one sense this is true, in that believers who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be delivered from this body of death, and be “clothed upon with our house which is from heaven,” (2Cor. 5:2) and then we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is, (1Jn. 3:2) being conformed to the image of his Son. (Rm. 8:29)
Trying to keep this together. From 958 to DB:
First, if the passage referred to the Second Coming of Christ as the time of the purgation, we would still have the concept of Purgatory intact, nmerely its application delayed.
Then 1Cor. 3 would not be not really be referring to purgatory, but the end result.
Secondly, I can see how "the day of the Lord" refers to the Second Coming, because indeed it is at the second coming that our deeds and the Glory of Heaven will be made manifest to all. From that it does not follow that the purgation process (as opposed to its manifestation to others) takes place at the Second Coming.
So 1Cor. 3, that being the day of Christ, the judgment seat of Christ, at the Second Coming of Christ, is purgatory in “application,” declaring the result of the actual purgation of dross of sins which commences at death?
I see this as being contrary to the description, which states that way the day shall declare it is by fire, which is when those who have inferior works will suffer loss, rather than that merely being the declarative result of testing.
At best, if there is a type of purgatory, then it can only be speculative, and 1Cor 3 in particular cannot be dogmatically defined as referring to it.
Thank you. I’ll get to your posts tomorrow.
Here are the relevant parts of the Catechism in full and with punctuation:
I. The Particular Judgment
1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.590 The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. the parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul -a destiny which can be different for some and for others.591
1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification592 or immediately,593-or immediate and everlasting damnation.594
At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.595
590 Cf. ⇒ 2 Tim 1:9-10.
591 Cf. ⇒ Lk 16:22; ⇒ 23:43; ⇒ Mt 16:26; ⇒ 2 Cor 5:8; ⇒ Phil 1:23; ⇒ Heb 9:27; ⇒ 12:23.
592 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 857-858; Council of Florence
(1439): DS 1304- 1306; Council of Trent (1563): DS 1820.
593 Cf. Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1000-1001; John XXII, Ne
super his (1334): DS 990.
594 Cf. Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1002.
595 St. John of the Cross, Dichos 64.
[…]
III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory
1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.604 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. the tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:605
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.606
1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."607 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.608 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:
Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.609
604 Cf. Council of Florence (1439): DS 1304; Council of Trent (1563): DS 1820; (1547): 1580; see also Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1000.
605 Cf. ⇒ 1 Cor 3:15; ⇒ 1 Pet 1:7.
606 St. Gregory the Great, Dial. 4, 39: PL 77, 396; cf. ⇒ Mt 12:31.
607 ⇒ 2 Macc 12:46.
608 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 856.
609 St. John Chrysostom, Hom. in 1 Cor. 41, 5: PG 61, 361; cf. ⇒ Job 1:5.
III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory
i do not see a purgatory there with souls who have nothing to be purified by fire from.
Neither do I; all go through particular judgment (“the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is”, 1 Cor 3:13), but not all have anything burnable in them so the purifying fire for them does not occur (“If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.”, v14). The fire as a test is there, but not the purifying fire.
every believer himself is burnt in the cleansing fire, but some go through unscathed, and thus this is not purgatory for them, but it is only those who need to take time in purgatory to burn off the "stubble" that experience purgatory
Yes, except if there is nothing to cleanse it is hardly “cleansing”.
which purgation process may not take place at the Second Coming (below), but merely reveals it?
This only makes sense to me if your question were to end “but is merely revealed at the time of the Second coming”. The general understanding of the Church is that it is the Particular Judgment where one’s place of eternal dwelling is sealed. The Last Judgment is understood as a point when the world as we know it ends completely, and those saved receive their glorified bodies. Indeed, since it is our works in life that determine our destiny, there is no point in delaying the particular judgment and the necessary purgation till the End of Time. The passage in 1 Cor 3 taken in isolation could indeed be read as if the purgation be occurring at the Last judgment, but that would not be consistent with the rest of the Scripture on the last things, and does not follow from the text with necessity.
it was on earth that man was tested
Of course. Leaving aside the relationship of faith and works, which we had the pleasure of discussing before, let me merely comment that the multiple tests of the lifetime have that anagogical quality to them as they build us up (here is that building metaphor again). The Particular Judgment is not done with the eye on prompting better works, but rather judging the works already completed.
the day of Christ, the judgment seat of Christ, at the Second Coming of Christ, is purgatory in “application,” declaring the result of the actual purgation of dross of sins which commences at death?
It is making manifest the purgation that had already occurred, like the text in 1 Cor 3 actually says.
if there is a type of purgatory, then it can only be speculative, and 1Cor 3 in particular cannot be dogmatically defined as referring to it.
This is not how the Catholic Church operates. The dogmas of the Church come from the bosom of the Church in her historical clarification of the deposit of faith received by the Apostles. The passage in 1 Cor 3 is a reflection of the belief of the Church in the cleansing after death, and the dogma of the Purgatory is another reflection. We don’t derive dogmas from the scripture but rather both the scripture and the dogmatic formalisms derive from the original deposit of faith and are in harmony.