Denying scripture, then? Hmm.
Food for thought: You assent to the teachings of a protestant ecclesial community, one of which revolves around personal interpretation of the Bible, do you not? Shall we then discuss any of the numerous points upon which protestants devolve? Perhaps Luther’s infamous addition comes to mind? “Forcing scriptures to fit ones theology” indeed.
The question was raised, by another, as to the scriptural basis for Catholic belief in Purgatory. I endeavored to help the poor guy out, by giving that which was requested. In my response to his inquiry, I don’t recall my having stated anything along the lines of whether or not you, or other protestants herein, must agree with it. Don’t misunderstand me. I do pray for you and others here, that you might understand it. But simultaneously, I comprehend your unwillingness. Catholic teachings on Purgatory are historically vastly older than protestantism. Although Purgatory was formally declared a dogma at the Council of Trent, that was a reaffirmation of a long-existing belief.
I won’t rattle on too much more, as there are still prayers to say, and children to love here, but here is a somewhat brief excerpt from a wonderful book by Father John Nageleisen, entitled “Charity For Suffering Souls.”
“27. Our Lord Himself, though He was most zealous in correcting abuses, and well knew that the Jews prayed for the dead, not only did not interfere with this practice, but confirmed it. For He said, “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.” (Matth. xn. 32.) From these words SS. Augustine, Gregory the Great, Bernard, the Venerable Bede and others conclude as follows: Whatsoever may be the nature of this speaking against the Holy Ghost mentioned here as an unpardonable sin, whether it be understood as referring to the obstinacy of the Jews or of the unbelievers in resisting the acknowledged truth: one certain, clear and indisputable fact follows from this passage of the gospel by the very exception made in it: it proves convincingly that certain sins are forgiven in the next world. Now this forgiveness is not obtainable in heaven, because sin does not gain admittance there, nor in hell, whence there is no redemption. There is only one possibility: these sins are forgiven in Purgatory—hence there is a Purgatory.
Moreover, Our Lord exhorts us: “Be at an agreement with thy adversary betimes, whilst thou art in the way with him: lest perhaps the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.” (Math. v. 25, 26.) Many holy Fathers, among them Origen, St. Jerome, St. Ambrose and others, declare that this passage is to be understood not only as referring to a place of eternal punishment, but also to one of temporal atonement in the next world, because deliverance is promised to those that “repay the last farthing.”
28. The doctrine of the Apostles agrees with that of their divine Master. Like Him, they never reproved the Jews for believing in a middle state, nor did they ever prohibit prayers for the dead. St. Paul (I. Cor. xv. 29.) mentioning the Jewish custom of pious practices for the dead, refers to these as to a baptism, or religious rite, and draws therefrom the conclusion of a future resurrection. He writes, “What shall they do that are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not again at all? why are they then baptized for them?” Thus he teaches us that the custom of praying for the dead is one beneficial to them, and hence to be retained by the Christians. But if there were only heaven and hell in the next world, such prayers would be unprofitable. St. Paul affirms this doctrine still more explicitly when he teaches that there are faithful who attain heaven by fire, or, to use his own words, they “shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” (I. Cor. in. 15.) According to the Apostle there are such as make Christ the foundation of their salvation, but build on this foundation an edifice of wood, hay or stubble, that is, they believe in Christ, but mix many imperfections with their good works. “If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss, but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” (I. Cor. in. 15.) “The fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is,” whether “gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble.” (Ib. 12. 13.) The holy Fathers remark that by gold, silver and precious stones are meant good works, by wood, hay and stubble venial sins and imperfections. Hence St. Augustine says, “Punish me in Thy wrath, that I may be cleansed in this world, and so transformed that I shall not stand in need of the purifying flames like those that are ‘saved as if by fire.’ Whence this? Because they built on the foundation with wood, hay and stubble here below. Had they built with gold, silver and precious stones, they would be safe from both fires, not only from the everlasting one that shall torment the wicked forever, but also from the one that purifies those that are saved by fire.” “
By the way, it has only been in the last 50 or so years that the word “cult” has developed perjorative connotations. For instance, from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult, we find:
Definition of CULT
1: formal religious veneration : worship
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator (health cults)
5a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
Were you to do research, you would find that the first two were the more common usages until somewhere around the middle of the last century. And likewise, you would discover, doubtless to your displeasure, that it was not commonly confined to Catholicism, but also applied to you of the denominations. Que sera.
I would rather be at peace with you, whether we agree or not. But either way, I will most assuredly pray for you. God be with you.
Dave, you have to remember that we are dealing with Calvinists who believe; "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was "No!"
Cult..false God, false christ, false salvation...