What the Church means by Purgatory

Fallible Blogma ^ | October 21, 2011

[NYer]

Catholics get a bad rap for thinking we somehow “merit” or “earn” our own sanctification (and salvation) through “works” that we do. But that’s a misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church actually teaches. Our sanctification (our being made holy) happens only by the Grace of God. But it does require a response on our part. We must cooperate with it. This submission to and cooperation with God’s Grace, Catholics call a “work” and it takes various forms.

Some identify this response to God’s grace as a kind of “saving” or “justifying” faith (a faith that produces or is accompanied by works of conversion, hope and charity) as opposed to a “work” – something we do. Such a position is reconcilable with Catholic teaching once we understand each side’s terminology. On the other hand, I think it’s confusing to refer to this cooperation with and submission to God’s Grace as simply “faith alone” – which is one reason Catholics don’t refer to it that way (and probably one reason the Bible says we are “not” saved by “faith alone” – James 2:24).

Anyway, here Fr. Barron speaks a little bit about some of these sanctifying practices of the Church and what we mean by “Purgatory” (an extension of that sanctification) in the super-natural sense.

What the Church means by purgatory? - Watch You Tube Video

This exclusive preview clip was from CATHOLICISM, Episode X: “WORLD WITHOUT END: THE LAST THINGS”.

Explore the Church’s conviction that life here and now is preparation for an extraordinary world that is yet to come – a supernatural destiny. Father Barron presents the Catholic vision of death, judgment, heaven, hell and purgatory as he journeys to Florence, Ireland and Rome.

The vision of the Church sees beyond this world and invites us to consider a world without end. Father Barron shows how this vision is supported by the mystery and truth of the Resurrection of Jesus.

View exclusive preview clips from all episodes of the CATHOLICISM series coming out in Fall 2011.

[smvoice]

Do you feel there are people who aren’t worth saving? Just wondering how a person would decide who’s worth saving and who isn’t.

[D-fendr]

Aw, Geez, now you’ve done it. Used the phrase:”those they don’t feel worth saving...” in a sentence.

[D-fendr]

So who thinks that happens...

It would, by definition include those who rely on, or presume, pardon of his/her sins without repenting of them. This can also include Catholics of course.

I don't think this a null set. I think could also include those who believe all their sins (past, present and future) are already forgiven. And there could be some overlap logically with those holding to OSAS belief.

[Judith Anne]

Now you’ve done it — you’veintroduced OSAS! Whatever you do, don’t mention Mary — OOPS!

[Natural Law]

"Whatever you do, don’t mention Mary — OOPS!"

And under no circumstances should anyone mention, either to agree or disagree, that pedophile clergy, and Catholic politicians are among those unworthy of saving, unless we want the whole trailer park to show up on this thread.

[D-fendr]

Uh Oh.

You said “trailer park.’

[boatbums]

As I expected. Certain people are genetically indisposed to ever admit they err. It is especially apparent when anyone can go back to written posts on a forum such as this to see for themselves that someone was indeed wrong. It takes personal maturity and a certain amount of grace to admit wrongly accusing another of what of they, themselves, are guilty.

It is also apparent that this same attitude is involved in the very subject of this thread - that of grace, faith and the satisfaction for sin that our Creator has given us as his most amazing gift. Some people bask in their own merit, goodness and works and presume they are adequate to earn them their ultimate goal - dwelling with the Creator for eternity. In a pretended humility, some will admit that they may come short of absolute holiness, so to not appear boastful or proud, they will express hope in an intermediate sphere where slight faults and missed opportunities to do good are washed from their souls and then they can proceed to the goal knowing they have earned it ever so much.

I pity the shock and anguish they will experience when they discover - too late - that God did not accept their merits, efforts, works, deeds, but a full and unhindered surrender to HIS holiness and perfection that he freely gives to us when we rest and trust in his mercy and grace to redeem us. They will be astonished when they finally understand that this grace of God that was not only sufficient to save them to the uttermost but was also what would take hold within them to do the works - the ones he REALLY wanted - that accomplished his will upon the earth and would draw the unsaved to him, as well. I continue to pray for those for whom it is not too late.

[Judith Anne]

Or the Crusades, the Second World War, Spain, Ireland, Obama, Holy Scriprure, let’s see, what else can’t we talk about without getting the Prots all hysterical? I know there’s more.

[Judith Anne]

Oh, what an arrogant, self-satisfied, smarmy post! Look in the mirror!

[CynicalBear]

>> just like earlier cults, yours is doomed to fail as it is not built on the solid foundation of God's word.<<

Then you would kindly show us where in scripture we can find the teaching of the bodily assumption of Mary?

[Judith Anne]

I pity the shock and anguish they will experience when they discover - too late - that God did not accept their merits, efforts, works, deeds, but a full and unhindered surrender to HIS holiness and perfection that he freely gives to us when we rest and trust in his mercy and grace to redeem us.

Odd, I detect no pity. I do, however, see a purplish tinge of self-satisfied anti-Catholic bigot. "How sad! You're going to hell. Oh well, we warned you!" Pride and arrogance are not going to convince anyone that you have the Holy Spirit within.

[Judith Anne]

,i.Then you would kindly show us where in scripture we can find the teaching of the bodily assumption of Mary?

In the same chapter where it givss the directions for Saltines and Welch's.

[D-fendr]

That’s hilarious..

[smvoice]

Maybe some good soup recipes..or how it's the Holky Spirit who leads you, JA. There are LOTS of topics we can discuss. Here's one:

" Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith: prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" 2 Cor. 13:5.

[CynicalBear]

>>It is also a present, ongoing process, as the author of Hebrews notes: "For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified" (Heb. 10:14).<<

Hebrews

Latin Vulgate
10:14 una enim oblatione consummavit in sempiternum sanctificatos

King James Version
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

American Standard Version
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Bible in Basic English
10:14 Because by one offering he has made complete for ever those who are made holy.

Darby's English Translation
10:14 For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified.

Douay Rheims
10:14 For by one oblation he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Noah Webster Bible
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Weymouth New Testament
10:14 For by a single offering He has for ever completed the blessing for those whom He is setting free from sin.

World English Bible
10:14 For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are sanctified.

Young's Literal Translation
10:14 for by one offering he hath perfected to the end those sanctified;

If we can’t trust you translation how can we trust what you say?

[D-fendr]

That verse brought The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis to mind.

Have you read it by chance?

[boatbums]

In it she said that the people who thought works were what saved them were told “I never knew you”.

Can protestants not read scripture? It was the people who did NOTHING who were cast into the outer dwrkmess. and the people who helped the sick, imprisoned, naked and hungry who were surprised that they had done anything for Christ, until He told them, "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these, ye have done it unto Me>" They were saved. I'm starting to wonder about all yall. Can't you see you've gotten it exactly backward?

You do realize, don't you, that you are mixing up your passages. The verses that speak about those who would tell Jesus, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?" are found in Matthew 7:22-23. Jesus answers these self-satisfied "religious" people, "Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’". Those are obviously the ones that thought their works would save them, HARDLY nothing.

But the verses in Matthew 25:30-50, speak of the sheep and goats. Try to keep things straight, okay?

[metmom]

Actually, Jesus never said that those labeled goats did nothing. They could have been as religious as all get out.

Matter of fact, a lot of people will appeal to good works and Jesus will say He didn’t know them.

[boatbums]

Not only that, but when is the Magesterium going to get around to “interpreting” all of Scripture or even composing an official commentary of Scripture? As of now, no such reference material exists and if anyone wanted to know what the correct interpretation of a certain Scripture passage is, they have no authoritative resource to go to. Scattered lines or pieces of verses are used throughout the Catechism - often not having anything remotely to do with proving the topic - but no comprehensive commentary has EVER been done nor attempted.

[CynicalBear]

Your version.

>>1 Thessalonians 4:7 The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you.<<

Other versions. Can you find the highlighted portion in any other versions?

Latin Vulgate
4:7 non enim vocavit nos Deus in inmunditia sed in sanctificatione

King James Version
4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

American Standard Version
4:7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification.

Bible in Basic English
4:7 Because it is God's purpose that our way of life may be not unclean but holy.

Darby's English Translation
4:7 For God has not called us to uncleanness, but in sanctification.

Douay Rheims
4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto sanctification.

Noah Webster Bible
4:7 For God hath not called us to uncleanness, but to holiness.

Weymouth New Testament
4:7 God has not called us to an unclean life, but to one of purity.

World English Bible
4:7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification.

Young's Literal Translation
4:7 for God did not call us on uncleanness, but in sanctification;

I am beginning to understand why Catholics don’t understand what scripture says. How much more of that deceit are we going to find?