Posted on 10/22/2011 1:21:35 PM PDT by NYer
Catholics get a bad rap for thinking we somehow “merit” or “earn” our own sanctification (and salvation) through “works” that we do. But that’s a misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church actually teaches. Our sanctification (our being made holy) happens only by the Grace of God. But it does require a response on our part. We must cooperate with it. This submission to and cooperation with God’s Grace, Catholics call a “work” and it takes various forms.
Some identify this response to God’s grace as a kind of “saving” or “justifying” faith (a faith that produces or is accompanied by works of conversion, hope and charity) as opposed to a “work” – something we do. Such a position is reconcilable with Catholic teaching once we understand each side’s terminology. On the other hand, I think it’s confusing to refer to this cooperation with and submission to God’s Grace as simply “faith alone” – which is one reason Catholics don’t refer to it that way (and probably one reason the Bible says we are “not” saved by “faith alone” – James 2:24).
Anyway, here Fr. Barron speaks a little bit about some of these sanctifying practices of the Church and what we mean by “Purgatory” (an extension of that sanctification) in the super-natural sense.
What the Church means by purgatory? - Watch You Tube Video
This exclusive preview clip was from CATHOLICISM, Episode X: “WORLD WITHOUT END: THE LAST THINGS”.
Explore the Church’s conviction that life here and now is preparation for an extraordinary world that is yet to come – a supernatural destiny. Father Barron presents the Catholic vision of death, judgment, heaven, hell and purgatory as he journeys to Florence, Ireland and Rome.
The vision of the Church sees beyond this world and invites us to consider a world without end. Father Barron shows how this vision is supported by the mystery and truth of the Resurrection of Jesus.
View exclusive preview clips from all episodes of the CATHOLICISM series coming out in Fall 2011.
I follow Christ’s Church; I don’t listen to fallible men, including you, on these matters.
Taking your advice of course..
THe sound you hear is the wailing and gnashing of the lost. The smell is the sulphur of Hell. Get used to it..
#378
“We do nothing but shine light in the darkness”
#382
“THe sound you hear is the wailing and gnashing of the lost. The smell is the sulphur of hell. Get used to it.”
So-—shall I believe that #378 is exemplified by #382?
As for me, I don’t think so.
I’ll follow Christ thank you very much. There seems to be problems following a “church”.
Examples of “following the church” can be found starting in Revelation 2.
I’m so sorry you don’t think so..That is a fine example of shining light in the darkness. The reality, the truth is, without accepting the finished work of Christ as your salvation, wailing and gnashing and the smell of sulphur IS your future. It really doesn’t matter what you think, it only matters what God says.
Well said! Carry on!
There seems to be… Examples of…
Oops, more opinions from a fallible man. Not gonna buy it - per your advice of course.
Whoever denied it supplied it.
My life has been given to the Lord and is in His hands.
You have no idea of my future....only the Lord does.
And it does matter to HIM what I think, for He knows my thoughts.
Judgment is mine, He says.
And I believe what He says.
Reading the minds and hearts and futures of another person is tricky business-—quite.
Unless I misunderstand, you are using your interlocutors as unwitting actors in a dishonest act of communication.
You are not really communicating with them, you are using them as foils, pretending to discuss but actually playing to the lurkers — in order to “win some.”
I recently read another ‘conversion story’ from the book “Chosen.” In it, a young lady caught in the middle asked her Baptist pastor (didn’t say what kind) why he said thus and so about the Catholic Church when to every appearance this and that was the case.
He conceded that this and that was the case but it was so important to keep people away from Rome that dissembling was justified. Thus he provided a great impetus in the direction of ‘Rome’.
So now you laugh, “lol!” because you are serving Him who is the Truth of God by creating a false impression and preaching Him who was among us as one who served by manipulating others.
I don’t think that’s the sort of thing Jesus would want us to do.
Rather, part of a point by point rebuttal.
To stay on topic, this seems to be one aspect in it that requires my attention:
This can be understood as only invoking it insofar as fire being purifying
Bingo. That is all the Purgatory is: purification preceding the entry into Heaven,necessary for some but perhaps not for all.
Bingo is not like purgatory either. “All” in essence, sure, but its the developed details that have been the issue.
As shown, among other aspects purgatory is contrary to 1Cor. 3:15 in time (2nd coming, not commencing at death) and in type (of loss, which is not one's own character defects which gains him entrance into glory, but the fruit of such, that of converts, a loss which the builder is saved despite of, not because of).
Maybe you haven't spent enough time with Catholics. Grumbling about bishops or the loose cannons in Vatican City is a major recreational activity. Popes and bishops are mighty thick on the ground in Dante's Inferno.
I meant here, as least as regards your spirit.
One of history's great Lay Dominicans, Catherine of Siena,...
And there is still contention over Savonarola
I wonder if you may be over-concretizing the Magisterium.
Well, i think that is in response to Roman Catholics and their varying ideas of what really is authoritative and promotion of the magisterium in general.
I got new glasses and they're great! I hope you can get some that are right for you. I don't HAVE headaches, I AM a headache!
My new glasses usually come from the dollar store. At 59 i guess glasses should be expected.
No, not a "nice bit of excerption" but, if you had bothered to read the part I excerpted that wasn't bolded, I posted the exact same words you did. LOL. Perhaps you were too busy singing and dancing and you just ignored the impending doom of hypocrisy? If you go back and read the posts of your buddies, you will find that NONE say a person can KNOW they are saved. The ONLY exceptions permitted have been people who are declared "saints" and who purport to have had visions of God welcoming them into heaven. Other than them, NOPE, no one can say they are saved.
Now, I totally disagree with this unbiblical and unChristian heresy for the simple reason that adding our works and deeds into the formula of grace not only dilutes it but decimates the whole purpose and meaning OF grace. I'm delighted to hear my prayers for you are being answered, though, and you are grasping the glorious and amazing truth of salvation by grace through faith and NOT of ourselves.
The Dominican House of Studies in DC has a bust of Savanarola in one the main halls. I’m guessing there on the “For” side.
The problem is you don't seem to "get it" that the ONLY reason anyone CAN say they are saved is because God promised it. Among many other such verses, look at I John 5:13 - "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God so that you may know you have eternal life..". It's not "self-declaring" anything but declaring trust in the promises of God. To deny that is "self-declaring" you know better than God and you are calling him a liar. In fact, John talked about people like you, "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (I John 5:10,11)
Do you have any explanation for God predestining people to hell? Why would one believe that God programs people to do evil and says that those he programmed to do evil will then be pushed into hell forever -- isn't that psychopathic -- why does your believe it?
All I can explain is what the Bible clearly says. I don't come right out and say "God programs people to hell", mainly because Scripture says it is God's will that all be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Yet, we know not all do. Did God KNOW before someone was born whether or not they would be saved? Yes, you can't believe in an all-knowing God and doubt he didn't know, can you? How all that works, I don't claim to understand it all, but I DO know one day it will all make sense. I can wait and trust God in the meantime. Will you?
I think you have made it more than clear that you go to the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church to "hear" the gospel of Christ. The big problem with that is they have left the true gospel of Jesus Christ and gone after an accursed gospel that cannot save. Read the book of Galatians, Paul talks all about the perverters of the true gospel, if the Roman Catholic Church had existed back then, they would be named specifically.
And posts like that really help portray Catholics and Catholicism in such a favorable light.
It really just makes me want to run right back into the loving Christlike arms of the Catholic church. I can just see Jesus talking like that.
Not....
HOow old are you anyway?
Forgive me for lowering myself to speaking in terms that you would understand.
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