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To: blasater1960
I somehow was expecting something a bit more learned in response, not to mention an acknowledgment that God did indeed command Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac. Abraham was being tested. An angel halted Abraham from going through with it. It was, on Isaac's part, a mitzvah to willingly allow himself to be sacrificed, al kiddush Hashem. There are those who see a foreshadowing there of Jesus Christ willingly allowing himself to be sacrificed. No matter which attempted workaround you've embraced in order to put forth this rather novel interpretation, the fact remains that God did indeed command that which you seem to believe impossible.
121 posted on 10/21/2011 5:51:22 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry
You said: "Abraham and Isaac upon Mount moriah, blasater1960."

If you wanted an more indepth answer...maybe you should have asked a more in depth question.

not to mention an acknowledgment that God did indeed command Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac.

That G-d told Abraham to go offer Isaac as a burnt offering is obvious. Why point out the obvious? People who say...Abraham and Isaac is a picture of G-d and Jesus are missing the point of the test. It shows nothing of the sort.

A) G-d asked Abraham...Please take your son...a special request.

B) Told him to go to Mt Moriah..the site of the future temple and sacrifices.

C) Abraham told Isaac that G-d would provide the sacrifice.

D) And he said, "Do not stretch forth your hand to the lad, nor do the slightest thing to him, for now I know that you are a God fearing man, and you did not withhold your son, your only one, from Me."

E) Abraham took the ram and offered it as a burnt sacrifice.

Now lets look at what has transpired. Abraham had 10 tests. The last being the Akeidah, the binding of Isaac. Why this test? Because Isaac was the child of G-ds promise of being a nation. And now G-d was testing him. Would G-d take away His promise to Abraham? Abraham quickly followed G-ds command. It is one thing your own life willingly but another to offer up anothers..particularly Isaac, the child from whom the nation of Israel would arise. That was a difficult test.

He takes him to the future temple site on Moriah. Binds him and then G-d stops him. The fact that he took it that far, in the eyes of G-d, it is as if he had actually done it. But G-d does not allow human sacrifice and the ram is given to Abraham. And Abraham proceeds with the burnt offering.

And G-d tells him...now I know you are a G-d fearing man. The whole point of the test and the command.

Now notice how it compares to Jesus.

G-d wasnt testing Jesus. Jesus was supposed to be god in the flesh. Jesus had no choice...no free will. He said in the garden, not my will but your will be done. (which is odd since he is supposed to be god in the flesh, why did he have to submit to himself?)

Abraham and Isaac both had free will. They chose to obey G-d.

Isaac was bound at the altar and wood on Mt Moriah. Abraham was going to slit his throat. That is the proper procedure for a sacrifice. Slit the animals throat for near instant death by rapid blood loss. The fat and ofal burned.

Jesus was not killed on Mt Moriah but at golgatha. He did not have his throat slit and rapid bllod loss. He died slowly by suffocation on the cross. His blood was not sprinkled on the altar. His fat and ofal not burned. His blood remained inside his body.

Other than the supposed father son relationship, the two stories are completely different. So what if G-d commanded Abraham to do this test. He stopped the test before human sacrifice. In at least four other locations in the bible, G-d says he HATES human sacrifice, it is an abomination to him, it didnt enter his mind to command it and He hates the shedding of innocent blood.

And the whole "sacrifice" of Jesus would have been a set up. Jesus would have been a never before seen god-man hybrid human. If I or you or anyone were 100% god and 100% man, we would not have sinned either. It is impossible for G-d to sin, therefore a god-man can not sin. The situation was rigged. So what good would be the death of a perfect human being be if it all was a set up? Jesus supposedly fulfilled the law on our behalf. Nowhere in all of Tanach does it say that a messiah will fulfill the law on our behalf, take the sins of the world, thus negating the law. No where. That is a fabrication of the NT. So the whole comparison of the Akeidah to Jesus is also baseless and fabricated.

The comaprison is not a kiddush Hashem but chillul Hashem.

127 posted on 10/22/2011 5:19:54 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: RegulatorCountry; blasater1960

I hope you don’t mind, but I just want to chime in your conversation about Sacrafice....I do believe *Christ*
is G-d not in G-d’s full nature because G-d is not a man.

Scripture speaks of the SON/Sun of G-d and the Son/Sun of Man in the Malachi scripture and in the Gospels..

Jesus did not say he was G-d but that he was one with G-d...

The first Man/ Adam did not have a human father and he was fully human, so that should tell us..G-d in his infinite nature can create *Man* I think science has evolved in the area of Cosmology, the Universe and *Creation* that we now have a (4-D) understanding of the Bible and G-d’s infinite nature as a *Consuming Fire* or as energy, dark matter, Quantumn Physics etc.

Is it possible that G-d in his power and greatness can transform part of his *Oneness* into a fully human being that is divine?? I don’t think any scripture says:
No he cannot?

I have wondered what the purpose of *Animal Sacrafice* was for a long time...You take the innocent *Perfect Lamb* who goes willingly to slaughter and kill it, because Man sinned..

Well does that make much sense to our Human mind??? I would say no....

However G-d must of had a plan before *Creation* that animals would be created and serve a much *Higher Purpose* other than just for food help or companionship. If animal sacrafice could reconcile sinful man to a Holy righteous G-d then when is Animal Sacrafice sufficent to satisfy G-d?

Apparently it isn’t, because Aniaml Sacrafice seems to have no end...

So if Jesus also referred as the *Perfect Lamb of G-d who takes away the Sins of the World* it seems as well G-d had a *Higher Purpose* for what *SACRAFICE* truly means in reconcilliation for Man and G-d.

Can we see that G-d might of been telling Abraham that Human Sacrafice is an abomination because no one is *Higher* than G-d and G-d who would sacrafice himself in the oneness of being fully human and divine is the only one that could serve that purpose and satisfy G-d..THE END...

When Jesus said: *IT IS FINISHED* I believe he meant Sacrafice has ended, once and for all...

The Bible says Jesus sat down at the right had of the *Father* Animal sacrafice has no end, no finally sitting down, it is a revolving door that never satisfies G-d.

If G-d is outside of time and Space can he go back in our time and wipe every sin we ever commited yesterday, today and tomorrow? Yes...

I believe that is why Jesus said: We present to G-d spotless and blameless, because Jesus paid it all...

It is not what we can do for G-d...It is what G-d had done for us....

That said: I do believe what blasater 1960 says: Is that the Jewish Priests are returning and will teach the nations about G-d...

Moses, Abraham, David, with Christ at the head in Jerusalem....

Just what I believe....

I appreciate all the insight many of you have on this topic!


154 posted on 10/24/2011 10:59:29 AM PDT by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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