Posted on 10/17/2011 8:03:26 AM PDT by Colofornian
Mormons believe that in 1820 a young Joseph Smith went into the woods to pray. In answer to that prayer, they believe, Joseph was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ. Today this is called the First Vision. As Joseph reported this vision (in the version that has since been named official), he asked the Deities which sect or church was right, and which one he should join. Joseph wrote,
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt (Joseph SmithHistory 1:19)
Mormonism entered into the religious scene swinging. According to Mormonisms founding prophet, if you are not a Mormon, your church is wrong, your beliefs are abomination to God, and you and your fellow professing church members are all corrupt.
I wonder if Mormons would see this as an example of the blessings of faith [that] carry the responsibility of civil and respectful debate that Mitt Romney has been talking about recently?
Last weekend Dallas Pastor Robert Jeffress publically identified Mormonism as a theological cult. Dr. Jeffress used the term cult as a theological classification, not as a pejorative, but that point seems to be lost on Mormons and the mainstream media.
Since Dr. Jeffress comments have been made known, Mormons have been vocally decrying his bigotry, his hatred, and his fanaticism. Truthfully, this all too common knee-jerk Mormon reaction grows wearisome.
Mormonisms very existence is unseverable from the poisonous language of its founders and leaders. Why was The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints established? Because all existing churches in 1820 were declared wrongthey had abominable creeds and corrupt members professing those creeds. The Mormon Church was established because (it claims) true Christianity had vanished from the earth; it had fallen into complete and total apostasy:
Every Latter-day Saint knows that following the death of the apostles, Pauls prophecy was fulfilled, for there were many grievous wolves that entered the flock, and men arose speaking perverse things, so that the doctrines were changed and the true Church of Jesus Christ ceased to be on the earth. For this reason there had to come a restoration of the Church and a new revelation and bestowal of divine authority. The Church of Jesus Christ and the Holy Scriptures are, therefore, not responsible for the changed doctrines and unscientific teachings of those times, when uninspired ecclesiastics controlled the thinking of the people. (Joseph Fielding Smith, Man, His Origin and Destiny, pp. 467)
Consider just a few of the punches Mormonism has thrown in its fight against Christianity:
Christiansthose poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking aboutsome of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers sermonspreaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. (Heber C. Kimball, July 26, 1857, Journal of Discourses 5:89-90)
Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity. (Brigham Young, July 8, 1863, Journal of Discourses, 10:230).
What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest of fools (John Taylor, May 6, 1870, Journal of Discourses 13:225)
I do not wish to say anything in relation to other forms of religion; I do not know that it is necessary that I should do so; but no thinking man can admit that Christianity so-calledI call it a false Christianity, untrue to its namesatisfies the wants of humanity at the present time. (George Q. Cannon, July 15, 1883, Journal of Discourses 24:185)
The false and corrupt institutions, and still more corrupt practices of Christendom, have had a downward tendency in the generations of man for many centuries. The overthrow of those ancient degenerate races is a type of that which now awaits the nations called Christian, or in other words, the great whore that sitteth upon many waters . (Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology, 1978, p. 106)
A false Christ is a false system of worship, a false church, a false cult that says: Lo, here is salvation; here is the doctrine of Christ. Come and believe thus and so, and ye shall be saved. We hear the voice of false Christs when we hear the Athanasian Creed proclaim that whosoever will be saved must believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are incomprehensible and uncreated, that they form a Trinity of equals, who are not three Gods but one God, and not one God but three Gods, and that unless we so believe we cannot be saved, and shall perish everlastingly. (Bruce McConkie, The Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man, p. 48.)
False creeds make false churches. There is no salvation in believing a lie. Every informed, inspired, and discerning person is revolted by the absurdities and scripture-defying pronouncements in the creeds of Christendom (Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah: From Bethlehem to Calvary 1:30. Footnote 2)
To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the Apostles is not to say that all that is in it is satanic Still, the power of God unto salvation (Rom. 1:16) is absent from all but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which the Lord himself has proclaimed to be the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth (D&C 1:30). Satans goal of hindering many of Gods children from returning to their Fathers glory is thus realized. (Kent P. Jackson, Early Signs of the Apostasy, Ensign, December 1984, p. 9)
Given the statements Ive quoted above, Im astonished that Mormons cry foul when any Christian declares that Mormonism is outside the theological boundaries of Christianity. Do Mormons really believe it is reprehensibly one-sided for evangelical Christians to use strong language to define the fact that there are vast differences between Mormonism and Christianity? Apparently so; a Mormon calling himself Eichendorff went on record with this non sequitur: no Latter-day Saint makes a point of condemning the beliefs of Evangelicals.
Mormons who complain about Christians questioning the theology of Mormonismprotesting against any suggestion that Mormonism isnt Christianity with cries of bigotry, hatred, and fanaticismneed to take a look at the historical discourse found in their own church. I would like to see Mormons abandon this hypocritical name-calling and (changing sports metaphors here) step up to the plate for real, thoughtful discussion. As Bill McKeever is fond of saying, If Mormons want to be in the religious Big Leagues they need to knock it off.
Christians = cult (according to mormons), then why the h#77 do they want to be called Christians?
Not to mention, "magic underwear". It's fair game, after all the question of, "Jockeys or boxers", was asked of Bill Clinton.
I own a K.J.V. "Masonic Bible", if you can show me where the text deviates from the K.J.V. Bible, I will throw it away.
Admittedly, I haven't read it very much, it is much too big to be practical. By the way, Free Masonery doesn't claim to be a religion either. J. Smith was a Mason briefly and was kicked out for wanting to make it a religion and then he stole those rites that are symbolic for Masons and incorporated them into Mormonism.
Oh but we do Colofornian. the prophet bring'em young expounded the doctrine of Adam/God for his followers. Problem is the 20th century mormons tossed him under the bus when that teaching shown unfavorably upon the PR image lds inc. was trying to project.
I think the word for October is “puny”, like your god is puny but the lds god is not.
Wonder what’s coming up for November?
And smith claimed he would be the next mohammad.
They disown family if they walk away or family that wont convert. CULT they are.
And Mose’ story NEVER EVER changed.
The First Book of Moses Chapter 18
Um,
Ok since we are leaving scripture and going to fiction then we can respond with the Fourth Chapter of the Hobbit and still be with in what is referred to as “truth” by LDS standards......
Bigot may get another run...
We jes ask Heavenly Father that all men be save. Heavenly Father knows what we need b4 we axe for it.
Um, Ok since we are leaving scripture and going to fiction then we can respond with the Fourth Chapter of the Hobbit and still be with in what is referred to as truth by LDS standards...... [Ejones]
BlueMoose...even the Mormon conjured-up "scripture" the Book of Moses has only 8 "known" chapters. What? Have your "prophets" been finding additional Egyptian funeral documents, and then "translating" them, adding chapters to your "Book of Moses" on the sly?
ALL: This is why you can't trust Mormons @ first glance....nor second, third, fourth, or fifth for that matter.
Their original founder was a fiction-writer like Scientologist's L. Ron Hubbard. Hence, any fiction is an "OK" sub for the facts!
Smith’s teachings were more peculiar than those of David Koresh, a “prophet” whom the UNS Government found intolerable. But today’s Mormons seem to minimize what they owe to Smith.
Early mormon “general authorities” also had a warmer view of Islam than of Christianity:
“The Greek and Roman Churches, which have been called Christian, and which take the name of Christians as a cloak, have worshipped innumerable idols. On this account, on the simple subject of the Deity and His worship, if nothing more, I should rather incline, of the two, after all my early traditions, education, and prejudices, to the side of Mahomet, for on this point he is on the side of truth, and the Christian world on the side of idolatry and heathenism.
In the first place, the latter lay it down as a point of theology, and it is a foundation point too, that there is one only true God, consisting of three persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, but without body, parts, or passions. Here is the exact image and likeness of an idol established through the principal creeds of Christendom, that is, if it is an image at all, or if it makes a shadow at all, it is that of an idol: it is a being that never existed in heaven, earth, or hell; it will not make even a shadow. Indeed, it is a thing literally motionless and powerless, as much so as any term that can be used to mean nonentity.
Jesus Christ, whom we worship as the Son of God, and the Savior of the world, has body, parts, and passions, and he is like his Father; he is the express image of his Father’s person and the brightness of His glory, whom we also worship. They are individual personages organized as a pattern after which men were created; they have tabernacles, and are in every way personages and intelligent beings.
Therefore, that something, or that nothing, that imaginary being, that idol that is recognised in the creeds of Christendom in general as a god without body, parts, or passions, has nothing to do whatever with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or with the Son of God that came in the meridian of time, who was crucified, died, and rose again from the dead, and ascended on high to lead captivity captive, and give gifts to men. Inasmuch as he and his Father are organised with body and parts, with limbs, joints, flesh, and bones, that are immortal and eternal, they have no part or lot, or communication whatever, with that imaginary being which is recognised in the principal creeds of Christendom as their God, viz., a god without body, parts, or passions.
Therefore, in that sense, in the very foundation of their creeds they are idolators; and instead of saying that Mahometanism prevailed against Christianity, and that Christianity was in danger of being done away by its prevalence, we would rather say, that where Mahometanism prevailed, it taught and established one truth at least, viz., the true and living God, and so far as this went, it did preserve people from worshipping idols. And had the crescent waved on the tower of London, or on the church of St. Paul, instead of the cross, and had the Mahometan religion been enforced instead of the Roman religion that was enforced for a series of generations, and had tradition riveted what the sword enforced, then that nation and the surrounding nations would have been worshippers of one true God instead of idols; they would have recognized it in theory at least, whether they would have worshipped Him in spirit and in truth or not. But now they do not recognize Him in theory, for they acknowledge as their god an imaginary being without body, parts, or passions.
Setting aside this one point, they acknowledge and worship innumerable idols, pictures, images, &c., amounting almost to an infinite number, in every place where Christianity has been blended with the civil power, and enforced and established by law under the one great standard called Catholic—imaginary deities that are the works of men’s hands, and to which they actually and literally bow down. This may not be the case so fully in these United States, where there is a kind of balance of power, and religion, and population, and influences of various kinds acting as checks upon each other; but go to those countries where there are no such checks or balances of power; go to Chili, Spain, or any other of the states or nations where the Roman cross, instead of the crescent, or any other ensign, is the standard, where there are no Protestant influences and Protestant dissensions to interfere with the prevailing power, and, as a matter of course, all the subjects of that realm have by law one religion prescribed to them, supported and enforced by civil authority, to the prohibition of all others. In such countries, you can contemplate that religion in all its open and unveiled idolatry; it is there you will see more fully exhibited the practice of worshipping images, of bowing down to dumb idols in the shape of pictures, images, saint worship, angel worship, &c., &c.”
Excerpt from a discourse of Parley Parker Pratt (Apostle), given in the Bowery at Salt Lake City on September 23, 1855.
Some consider scripture fiction.
Yes.
But todays Mormons seem to minimize what they owe to Smith.
Yes & No.
Yes, Mormons will often throw Smith under the bus when it comes to having to face much of what he taught.
But, no, in that Mormons realize, no Smith, no Mormonism. Hence, the "larger-than-life" sculptured images of Smith or almost-perfect artistic drawings of Smith that don't match reality [cue Elsie with many of his posted images]. Or the "Praise to the Man" ode-to-Joe hymn in their hymnal.
Hence, the portrayal of him is so often in truly mythical proportion.
[This is also why we've seen the "Joseph Smith nativity scene" posted on so many FR threads. Jesus Christ has a tough time competing with Smith @ Christmas time...as Smith was born Dec. 23...and for so many years -- and is still true today...Smith outdoes Jesus for mentions by Mormons in their testimony meetin's]
Ah, the hubris of Smith has been swallowed by his disciples: "All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, NOR JESUS ever did it. I boast that NO MAN ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet . . . " (History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-409).
Utter Blasphemy! And yet Mitt Romney, Jon Huntsman, and all Mormons follow a man who would utter such a thing!
Does their blasphemy & idolatry know of any bounds?
You missed a key adjective there, BM: Some consider Mormon scripture fiction.
The dead-man-turned-angel-ghost Moroni didn't write, summarize, or even compile the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith had a "true confession" time in one of his D&C verses. Here, read Smith's "confessional" about admitting what a great work of fiction he wrote. It's right there in one of your "scriptures":
"Behold, thou wast called and chosen to WRITE the Book of Mormon..." (Doctrine & Covenants 24:1).
Not "translate," BM.
Not "interpret," BM.
But to write!
(My theory is that Smith thought it was a masterpiece fictional work as of July 1830 when D&C 24:1 was penned. He wanted to be sure he rec'd the requisite recognition & glory for its content. And he hadn't yet fully realized the religious swindle potential...$...available females to sleep with in a time & place when culture frowned upon such bed-to-bed maneuvering...even 11 men's wives available to him for sleeping arrangements).
Reminds me of L. Ron Hubbard, who wrote fiction...but admitted that the place for real $ was religion (Scientology).
I'm not aware that JS wrote this. Please enlighten me.
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