It was not my intent to imply that you had personally implied or said any of those things about me and other LDS members, simply that others had.
The one difference was that there is an area where we are "all just alike," in that we all sin and are need of Christ's atonement...which is an Atonement we both believe in and bothy honestly feel we need. That was my meaning.
Thanks for your civil dialog.
We could go through each of those areas you mentioned and discuss them...probably not agree, but discuss them from each perspective. For example, our faith of and belief in the Godhead as being three distinct seperate beings is also grounded in the Biblical teachings of Christ himself and the apostles, as well as, certainly, what Joseph Smith himself experienced and testified of.
My real intent was simply to add my testimony of Jesus Christ.
Again, thanks, and God's blessings to you and yours.
With all due respect Jeff - we are not alike in the understanding of the atonement - it is one of the significant areas that separate mormonism from Christianity. Mormonism emphasizes the suffering in the garden as the atonement. Biblical studies show that the concept of the atonement was in the sacrifice - the death - not sweating. This is shown time and again by Paul who stressed that Christ's death was of primary importance in the atonement. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-3 he wrote, "I delivered unto you first of all ...that Christ died for our sins."
Packer likens the atonement to refinancing one's debt/loan. It requires continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God. Mormons have to EARN the right to that atonement.
"It is hard to know when we have done enough for the Atonement to change our natures and so qualify us for eternal life. And we don't know how many days we will have to give the service necessary for that mighty change to come. But we know that we will have days enough if only we don't waste them." - Henry B. Eyring, "This Day" April 2007 General Conference
For the non-mormons out there, mormon atonement is two fold in nature - 1) It atones unconditionally for the original sin of Adam and Eve and provides for a physical resurrection from the grave; 2) It provides forgiveness of sins on the condition of complete repentance and obedience to all of the commandments.
Christianity is much simpler - recognizing that the price was paid in full for our sins - that sacrifice was offered by grace - and not works - of humans.
My apologies for the misunderstanding on my part.
I completely agree with you on this.
Jeff makes much of the atonement in his "I'm a Mormon, too" FREEPER commercial testimony he has now posted on more than one thread -- inclusive of this one.
Jeff says all need it. The real Q is can Christ's blood cover all of a person's sins?
The Bible says "yes" -- Jeff's Mormon leaders "no":
1 John 1:7-9 makes it quite clear that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from ALL sin (cf. Rom. 5:8-9)
Per two Lds "prophets" (Brigham Young & Joseph Fielding Smith) + a couple of Lds "apostles" (Jeffrey Holland, current "apostle" + Bruce McConkie), the answer is "no":
Prophet Brigham Young taught: "There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it; and the judgments of the Almighty will come, sooner or later, and every man and woman will have to atone for breaking their covenants (Discourses of Brigham Young, p.385).
If the above is not true, Young was a false prophet and the entirety of Mormon higher education is built upon such a man (who also taught for over 20 years that Adam was god!).
You see, Mormon leaders accuse Jesus of having rather anemic blood:
"Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgressors beyond the power of the atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone, as far as possible, in their behalf. This is scriptural doctrine, and is taught in all the standard works of the Church." (Joseph Fielding Smith, "Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1 , p. 135)
Mormon Apostle Bruce McConkie wrote: "But under certain circumstances there are some serious sins for which the cleansing of Christ does not operate, and the law of God is that men must have their own blood shed to atone for their sins" (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 92).
And: "Man may commit certain grievous sins--according to his light and knowledge--that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be save he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone-- so far as in his power lies -- for that sin, for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 93).
Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland though claims forgiveness of personal sins applies to only to members of the Mormon church:
Besides, this current apostle says God's forgiveness in Christ only applies in the atonement to current Mormon church members: From this Holland article: Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional upon obedience and diligence in keeping God's commandments. For example, while members of the human family are freely and universally given a reprieve from Adam's sin through no effort or action of their own, they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in his name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ's church...
Source: Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland: ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST - Mormon- (OPEN)
You apparently don’t think too much about the unique MORMON theology, as you never talk about it.