Posted on 10/06/2011 10:50:18 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Last May, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie explained why he seems to relish conflict.
“I have an Irish father,” said Christie, who on Tuesday announced that he would not seek the GOP presidential nomination, “and I had…a Sicilian mother. For those of you who have been exposed to the combination of Irish and Sicilian, it has made me not unfamiliar with conflict.”
Meanwhile, Christie’s wife, Mary Pat, has not only been tabbed as a highly influential partner. She is also “the ninth of 10 kids in a close-knit Irish Catholic family,” according to the New York Post.
A long time family friend, New Jersey state Senator Joe Kyrillos, was recently quoted as saying, “(Mary Pat) does not get pushed around. She’s a tough Irish woman. She comes from a family of 10 kids!”
So, if Christie ultimately decided to throw his (ample) weight behind a presidential run, it would have added a decidedly Irish Catholic flair.
And that could have been a big problem.
On the surface, an Irish Catholic Republican is no big deal these days. The problems come when you dig deeply into the conservative GOP base, where strong vestiges of anti-Catholic and anti-immigrant sentiment still linger.
Now, it is true that Republicans already have a Catholic (Rick Santorum) and a Mormon (Mitt Romney) in their crowded field. But it’s also true that neither of them have exactly wowed vast numbers of Republicans. And as one religious expert wrote in The New York Times in July, “Hardline fundamentalists remain anti-Mormon (and anti-Catholic, for that matter); they may not ever support any but their own.”
And let’s not forget the Muslims! Christie himself scolded conservatives who groaned when the governor appointed Muslim American Sohail Mohammed to the New Jersey Superior Court.
“I think it is terrible to try to exclude someone from office based only on his religion, and that’s what was happening here,” said Christie, before looking back to a pivotal moment in Irish Catholic American history.
“President Kennedy had to stand up in Houston and say his own personal faith wouldn’t intersect with his public life. Since then I thought we wouldn’t have any more of this ridiculousness,” he said.
Christie also famously said, “I’m tired of dealing with crazies.”
Well, that’s just what he would have had to deal with if he had jumped into the race.
Catholicism remains a problem when you wander away from the moderate Republicanism of the Northeastern suburbs and into the more intense hotbeds of evangelical Protestantism in the south and West.
Michele Bachmann has been linked to a Lutheran church with nearly half a million members whose admiration for Reformation leader Martin Luther has led them to label the papacy “the anti-Christ.”
Yes, Bachmann has left this particularly loving church. But how many Democrats do you really think are among the half a million members of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod?
Meanwhile, don’t forget that John McCain had to repudiate the endorsement of a notorious anti-Catholic preacher four years ago.
“The McCain campaign had already endured a series of other disclosures of controversial past statements from (Reverend John) Hagee about his views of Catholics,” the Times noted in 2008.
Hagee is far from a footnote these days. Word is he is thinking of endorsing Rick Perry.
The point of this is not to tar these candidates with the radical views of certain anti-Catholics. The point is to note that a significant number of influential conservatives still hold these views.
Now, it is true Christie is solidly opposed to abortion. But as his defense of a Muslim American judge suggests, he has also taken a generally moderate stance on immigration. (As, by the way, did Ronald Reagan, as Linda Chavez noted in an interesting New York Post column last week.)
It all comes down to this -- how will this ethnic Catholic who won’t bash immigrants and who talks about John F. Kennedy in a positive light fair in the Republican primary?
How many “crazies” would Christie have listened to before his famous temper made it clear that he is quite unelectable?
We won’t find out this time around, but maybe in four years . . .
On the surface, an Irish Catholic Republican is no big deal these days. The problems come when you dig deeply into the conservative GOP base, where strong vestiges of anti-Catholic and anti-immigrant sentiment still linger.
Now, it is true that Republicans already have a Catholic (Rick Santorum) and a Mormon (Mitt Romney) in their crowded field. But it’s also true that neither of them have exactly wowed vast numbers of Republicans. And as one religious expert wrote in The New York Times in July, “Hardline fundamentalists remain anti-Mormon (and anti-Catholic, for that matter); they may not ever support any but their own”....
....Michele Bachmann has been linked to a Lutheran church with nearly half a million members whose admiration for Reformation leader Martin Luther has led them to label the papacy "the anti-Christ." Yes, Bachmann has left this particularly loving church. But how many Democrats do you really think are among the half a million members of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod?...
....How many “crazies” would Christie have listened to before his famous temper made it clear that he is quite unelectable? We won’t find out this time around, but maybe in four years....
Two points.
First of all, Rev. John Hagee genuinely apologized for his anti-Catholic outburst, as testified by Bill Donahue of the Catholic League. He appears to be a real Christian gentleman.
Second, I’m not so sure how genuine a Catholic Christie really is. From all appearances, he is a RINO and a CINO. I don’t have much to go on, but that certainly is the appearance, IMHO.
Hagee may have apologized, but I’m here to tell you that millions of Christians wouldn’t.
When I joyfully announced that I had been received into the Roman Catholic Church after a lifetime as a Protestant, I was unfriended on Facebook by people who had known me for years and had had a good relationship with me. Friends were appalled. Members of my former church were filled with horror and disgust. Fundamentalist cousins who had always treated me with the greatest kindness and affection cut off communication with me. Neighbors turned away. They all behaved as if I had announced that I personally intended to start abducting Protestant children and taking them into some dungeon for the black rites of the Inquisition.
I was astonished, and told people that we all serve the same Christ, the Son of God who was crucified for our sins, was resurrected, ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. No dice. So finally I gave up and said Fine, see ya in heaven.
With my experience, it’s easy to see that people might not vote for an ardent Catholic, much less a Mormon.
Yes, well, we see some of that here in the forum. It’s really a shame.
I was born and bred an Episcopalian, and converted to Catholicism while I was in college. I feel gratitude for all that the Episcopal Church gave me while I was growing up, and sorrow that they are going through so many troubles now.
I once was asked to head an academic organization that included both Protestants and Catholics, but it was founded by Evangelicals, and they were still in the majority. I told my friends that we would agree to disagree on certain theological matters, but that the modern idea of Ecumenicism—basically throwing out every point of difference until you’ve reached a lukewarm least common denominator—should not be considered. The organization would be stronger if we were all loyal to our faiths but worked together nonetheless.
Of course, that’s pretty much where Martin Luther and Protestantism started from—”I am not a Catholic!” But there is so much in our country today that we have a common interest in fighting, that it’s too bad if we cannot fight for such basic issues as the right to life and freedom of religion, or decent morality in our public school systems and among our political and intellectual leaders, while agreeing to disagree on points of doctrine.
As Christ said you would be persecuted. Yet I see all of those who enrich the family of God that is The Church as being chosen for a mission. All of you are clearly chosen and blessed and will enrich the Church.
What I’ve noticed is the involuntary and quickly suppressed sneer.
But I’m on both sides. I mean, I’ve BEEN the knee-jerk anti-Catholic and I’ve been on the receiving end of the jerking knee. So I’m working on seeing the justice in being on the receiving end. Some days I’m better at it than others.
The temptation to spiritual pride is huge. That there is one sneaky vice.
Word.
I never had any exposure to the hostility-in-Christ subset until I began hanging out in the seedier neighborhoods of Freeperville.
So my experience is that serious hostility-in-Christ is practiced only by a very small minority. And practiced mainly (I hope!) by people who probably would be too innately decent to treat you to your face with that level of antagonism.
How that would affect political behavior ---their vote --- I can't guess. Possibly people of this subset don't vote at all.
We can always hope.
Then in 2009 in Florence I met a German Lutheran pastor who didn't know if I was Catholic or not but started criticising Catholicism to my mom and me (two strangers) second sentence out of his mouth.
I like the big lug. I just think he’s closer to a standard-issue Northeastern Republican than GOP primary voters would want as their first choice.
I must say I’m not equipped to understand it. I was raised by kind, normal people.
What is surprising is that my grandparents (aunt’s parents) were kind, normal people. She made some mistakes in her life and I guess the guilt complex made her vulnerable to the born-again group who completely twisted her sanity
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