Posted on 09/30/2011 11:12:07 AM PDT by Colofornian
I found this article "Our Relationship With the Lord" written by Bruce R. McConkie and found in the BYU Devotional dated March 2, 1982. This portion of the article left me somewhat stunned :
"5. Christ worked out his own salvation by worshiping the Father.
After the Firstborn of the Father, while yet a spirit being, had gained power and intelligence that made him like unto God; after he had become, under the Father, the Creator of worlds without number; after he had reigned on the throne of eternal power as the Lord Omnipotent-- after all this he yet had to gain a mortal and then an immortal body.
After the Son of God "made flesh" his "tabernacle," and while he yet "dwelt among the sons of men"; after he left his preexistent glory as we all do at birth; after he was born of Mary in Bethlehem of Judea--after all this he was called upon to work out his own salvation.
Of our Lord's life while in this mortal probation the scripture says, "He received not of the fullness at the first, but received grace for grace; and he received not of the fullness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fullness." Finally, after his resurrection, "he received a fullness of the glory of the Father; and he received all power both in heaven and on earth, and the glory of the Father was with him, for he dwelt in him." (D&C 93:12-17)
Do Mormons actually believe that Christ needed salvation? If so, from what did he need to be saved? From sin? If not sin, then what?
Thank you.
I'm not Catholic but doesn't mormonism teach that your church is the whore of Babylon? Or maybe they teach that all others are that whore of Babylon. I know that old fraud Joe said that all other churches were apostate.
Howin the world can quoting Mormon documents constitute having a chip on your shoulder??
How can QUOTING what YOUR leaders say constitute having a chip on your shoulder??
I’m not the best person to argue against Mormon Theology, but I have examined a lot of it, and I know your characterizations about their beliefs are false.
“They believe that not only is Jesus eternal, that we are all eternal....That means He was created by God.”
That defies logic. If something was created, then it can’t be eternal. The Biblical Jesus was God forever and is the Creator of all things. That means Jesus created Lucifer and isn’t his brother. The Mormon Jesus used to be a man on a different planet and earned his divinity.
Mormons believe in polytheism. Christians believe in Monotheism - Jesus is the one and only God.
“So Mormons believe what some of the early Christians believed.” No, anyone who denies the trinity is not a Christian, but is a heretic. Mormons believe what other heretics have believed.
Mormon prophets taught that Jesus was married and had multiple wives. Since Mormons believe their prophets speak for God’s relevation, then that is the equivalent of their scripture.
The Mormon Jesus is not worshipped as Almighty God, like the Biblical Jesus. Mormons consider Jesus a lesser god to heavenly father. They may love him, but they don’t reserve their worship for him.
“Jesus of the Mormons offers salvation to all by virtue of His grace to all who seek it. Mormons believe that being saved is the same as traditional Christians believe being saved is.”
Laughable explanation....Grace by its definition can’t be earned. Christians believe that sinners are unworthy of God’s mercy, but because of God’s great love and grace, the penalty of sin was paid for at the cross by Jesus. Mormons believe that all spiritually minded people go to some level of paradise, so really, Jesus doesn’t save them from anything.
Mormons don’t rely on Christ’s commandments for their belief in higher levels of Heaven. Instead, they must obey Joseph Smith and their bishop. The Bishop decides if they are temple worthy. The passages from the Bible you paraphrase are completely out of context and don’t deal with salvation.
The temple rituals aren’t found in Mormon scriptures, but are copied from Masonic sources.
The Bible doesn’t allow someone else to earn your salvation for you. Despite your belief that it’s unselfish for someone to try to perform ceremonies on your behalf, it’s completely ineffectual and creepy.
“What I do question is, what difference do their different beliefs make as long as they worship Christ?”
It makes all the difference in the world!! First, their different beliefs mean they don’t worship the same Christ. If someone were to worship a banana and call it Jesus Christ, it wouldn’t be the same thing.
You point out nominal differences like the skin color of Jesus when he dwelt in the flesh, as if that is bulk of the differences. Jesus of the Bible is the One and God of all. He’s isn’t some lesser diety that used to be a man. That is a monumental difference.
Take off your blinders and realize that meanings behind terms mean something. Just because Mormons use the same terms doesn’t mean they believe things remotely close to Christianity.
I always like to use the analogy of Jim Caviezel. Like the Mormon Jesus, he dressed the part, spoke the same words (in the original language, no less), and was referred to as Jesus Christ within a specific context, but it makes all the difference in the world whether one worships and depends upon him for their salvation or the genuine article.
We weren’t warned about false Christs, false prophets, and false teachers for no reason.
“I’m not Catholic but doesn’t mormonism teach that your church is the whore of Babylon?”
Apparently they do, I have seen a quote were they say that on these sorts of threads.
It was pretty standard fare at one time in the US and certain non Catholic Christian faiths still have it in their founding documents, although I guess it isn’t nearly like it once was.
Although any time I have ever seen that Whore of Babylon/Cult Goddess Mary Worshippers kind of thing on FR about Catholic Christians it came from some other sort of Christian, not LDS.
Freegards
place marker: While head is spinning from those who admit they don’t know mormonISM then spend pages explaining what lds do or do not teach and/or practice.
huh? You have a source for that claim?
Then you state: Mormons believe that being saved is the same as traditional Christians believe being saved is. WRONG!
Mormons do NOT believe in salvation as Christians know it, but "exaltation" not gained by the virtue of His grace, but gained after "working and striving" and taking part in rituals in mormon temples and obeying manmade laws regarding diet, clothing and paying mandatory tithing to a church.
You state: Where Mormons believe differently is in the degrees of Heaven, they don't think that all will receive the same glory in heaven.
THIS statement is a direct contradiction to your early statement,"Jesus of the Mormons offers salvation to all by virtue of His grace to all who seek it."
Mormonism is not Christian.
Maybe I haven’t been on the right threads but I’ve never personally seen anybody make that “whore of Babylon” claim about the Catholic church.
“huh? You have a source for that claim?”
I’m sorry, you might have to be a little bit more specific.
Freegards
The LDS have publicly distanced themselves from that phrase; however they do still believe it and teach it (at least at the local level). Most of the more graphic quotes are from earlier leaders - which I can provide.
The public distance of terms like that is part of their trying to be considered Christians ‘just like everyone else’ which started in the late 1980’s.
Your cults ‘Journal of Discourses’ proves Mormonism is not Christian. If you persist in your deceptions I will post a few direct quotes from your peepstone sexual predator of married women and subsequent ‘LDS prophets and apostles’ that show the blasphemies and heresies your cult has taught to ‘the faithful’. Meantime, answer truthfully: Was The God of Mormonism once a man and had to earn the attributes of godhood?
Feel free to use it as often as you like. I claim no copyright.
Sure. I reckon what we could do is ping each other to posts where and when we see “Whore of Babylon/goddess worshiping/cult stuff about the Catholic Church. Then we can determine if these kinds of posts come from LDS or nonCatholic Christians on FR. I’ve only observed them to come from other sorts of Christians myself, not LDS. Have you observed differently?
Should we ping eachother to this thread and provide a link or the actual thread where we see such things said?
Freegards
How often are you on the Catholic/nonCatholic Christian threads? The “Whore of Babylon” thing isn’t too common. It’s much more common to see the goddess worshipping/cult thing. But not from LDS that I’ve observed.
Freegards
D&C 29:21: "And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for abominations shall not reign."
"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the Lord denounces - Apostle Orson Pratt The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255
Under the name of modern Christianity, scripturally called "Babylon the Great"—"The whore of all the earth," with whom the nations for centuries have committed fornication, and have drank out of her filthy cup. - Apostle Orson Pratt, The Essential Orson Pratt, p.109
However it is your claim, so you are the one that needs to provide evidence.
“The LDS have publicly distanced themselves from that phrase; however they do still believe it and teach it (at least at the local level).”
I find that plausible.
“Most of the more graphic quotes are from earlier leaders - which I can provide.”
If I recall the two I’ve seen is one where all other groups are called out and then I think I’ve seen another one That calls out Catholics specifically.
“The public distance of terms like that is part of their trying to be considered Christians ‘just like everyone else’ which started in the late 1980’s.”
Right, I remember seeing the older quotes about how at one time they didn’t want to be known as part of Christendom at all. Thank you for the response.
And now to play off baseball!
Freegards
CC just struck first batter out.
What LDS Freeper said that? You realize we are talking about on FR, right?
Freegards
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