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To: annalex
Capitalization in the English language can change a word no matter when or who started the practice. It makes a huge difference when, in translating, a descriptive and general designation is turned into an exclusive and specific title.

“Now, when someone receives an office, a title comes with the office, whether we have that particular mode of address itself recorded in the scripture or not”

That's a bit of reverse and novel exegesis on the part of the Catholic church,i.e., invent an office title and then claim to find it in Scripture even if it requires the most obvious mistranslation. But you say:

“..... I can read the Greek original and so I know the meaning of words of the Holy Scripture unobfuscated by Protestant shysters.”

Then why insist that elder, older man, whether literal or figurative, is a priest when the NT plainly recognizes what a priest is seeing Jewish priests and recognizes the only priests that come from the Christian congregation are those faithful believers that die and only after resurrection to heaven serve as KINGS and PRIESTS.

These were priests, the Greek ‘hiereus’ of Rev. 1:6. But anyone able to read Greek in the original would know that wouldn't they?

And they would know too that the gifts given Timothy (1 Tim. 4:14) by prophecy with his appointment (ordination) are those Paul spoke of at Eph. 4:7,8:

“But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Wherefore he saith When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.”

“Neglect not the grace that is in thee, which was given thee by prophesy, with imposition of the hands of the priesthood. (1 Timothy 4:14)

The presbytery was not a priesthood as anyone who is familiar with how the Greek is used. Hence no so called “ontological” transformation that is claimed for Catholic priests.

“But the Holy Scripture, if you ever read it, does not give us an example of someone “being termed deacon” just spontaneously to cover the needs of a moment.”

You said of yourself:

“Yes I do. I can read the Greek original and so I know the meaning of words of the Holy Scripture unobfuscated by Protestant shysters. I also read the Fathers of the Church diligently, so I also know the historical context in which the New Testament was written, and how it was understood by the First Church. I also hear the Holy Scripture as I pray in church in the presence of the eucharistic Christ. Worry about yourself.”

Then with all that training and qualifications have you forgotten that Martha became a diakonos “just spontaneously to cover the needs of a moment.” (Luke 10:40) "I also hear the Holy Scripture as I pray in church in the presence of the eucharistic Christ. Worry about yourself." I'm not the one hearing voices in my head but thanks for the concern.

39 posted on 09/08/2011 10:06:04 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
Capitalization in the English language can change a word

Yes, it can. What did I capitalize wrong? What I say is that the office is important, not whether the word is ever used also as a title. From the scripture cited in my previous two posts, the deaconate, priesthood and episcopacy are offices with distinct duties as well as some overlapping duties.

why insist that elder, older man, whether literal or figurative, is a priest

Priests of the New Testament are presbyteroi in the original. They are priests because they celebrate sacraments (see for example, James 5:14) and are a distinct people for that reason (1 Timothy 4:14). Since they are obviously not Hebrew or pagan priests, the word hiereus is not used and instead the word presbyteros is coined and used in a novel sense. That the English word "priest" is used to cover both non-Christian hiereus and Christian presbyteros is a defect of the English language; most languages don't confuse the two.

The presbytery was not a priesthood

Repeat it some more and it will become true, would it not? The point of bringing 1 Timothy 4:14 is indeed to point out that the imposition of hands ordained St. Timothy to something he was not before. Yes, there are many gifts given the priests.

Martha became a diakonos

She served Jesus, yes (forms of the same word as deacon are used in Luke 10 to describe here work, but not herself as a person), but there is no ordination of St. Martha into deaconate described in the Bible, and there is one in the case of the seven deacons.

Generally, understand this: each word has some etymology out of which a new meaning emerges. You would not argue that because "president" means "one sitting ahead of others" presidency of the US is not a political office but rather something people find themselves doing on occasion; but you exhibit the same foolishness when it comes to the terminology of the Holy Scripture.

44 posted on 09/08/2011 5:51:07 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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