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To: count-your-change
Capitalization in the English language can change a word

Yes, it can. What did I capitalize wrong? What I say is that the office is important, not whether the word is ever used also as a title. From the scripture cited in my previous two posts, the deaconate, priesthood and episcopacy are offices with distinct duties as well as some overlapping duties.

why insist that elder, older man, whether literal or figurative, is a priest

Priests of the New Testament are presbyteroi in the original. They are priests because they celebrate sacraments (see for example, James 5:14) and are a distinct people for that reason (1 Timothy 4:14). Since they are obviously not Hebrew or pagan priests, the word hiereus is not used and instead the word presbyteros is coined and used in a novel sense. That the English word "priest" is used to cover both non-Christian hiereus and Christian presbyteros is a defect of the English language; most languages don't confuse the two.

The presbytery was not a priesthood

Repeat it some more and it will become true, would it not? The point of bringing 1 Timothy 4:14 is indeed to point out that the imposition of hands ordained St. Timothy to something he was not before. Yes, there are many gifts given the priests.

Martha became a diakonos

She served Jesus, yes (forms of the same word as deacon are used in Luke 10 to describe here work, but not herself as a person), but there is no ordination of St. Martha into deaconate described in the Bible, and there is one in the case of the seven deacons.

Generally, understand this: each word has some etymology out of which a new meaning emerges. You would not argue that because "president" means "one sitting ahead of others" presidency of the US is not a political office but rather something people find themselves doing on occasion; but you exhibit the same foolishness when it comes to the terminology of the Holy Scripture.

44 posted on 09/08/2011 5:51:07 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
“Since they are obviously not Hebrew or pagan priests, the word hiereus is not used and instead the word presbyteros is coined and used in a novel sense. That the English word “priest” is used to cover both non-Christian hiereus and Christian presbyteros is a defect of the English language; most languages don't confuse the two>”

The word hiereus IS in fact used of Christian priests, specifically those who would rule with Christ as kings and priests. The word hiereus is used of Christ as he is archiereus not archpresbyteros.

Both Paul and John use the Greek hiereus to speak of these king/priests and the Jewish priests but presbyteros and hiereus are NOT used interchangeably....because presbyteros does not mean priest and the defect is not in the English language but the efforts to do retro-exegesis according to the bias of the Catholic church and its efforts to install priests in the Chistian congregations where none exists.

I see how well you “read Greek in the original” and so forth.

Paul knew the word for priesthood and he didn't use it at 1 Tim. 4:14. Paul used the word prebytery, elders, older men not priests or hiereus.

But you should know this since you “read Greek in the original” and should require no further enlightenment from me.

45 posted on 09/08/2011 7:22:36 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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