[count-your-change]

Of course I didn't use the term “TOTAL APOSTASY”. In that illustration Jesus said he sowed the fine seed and that both the weeds and wheat were sown close to the same time so both grew with a similar appearance as darnel and wheat does.

Jesus’ preaching ministry was not his kingdom as you say, confusing the two:

“Old Testament prophecies on Christ's ministry the Church talk of it as perpetual and incorruptible as a whole

Daniel 7:13-14: “. . . behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man , and he and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed”

You say:
“The history of actions of some men in orthodoxy does not affect the basic faith which is of Christ Jesus as He spoke...”

The corrupt and murderous Pharisees said they had the “orthodox” faith and they had their “place” and yet despite having ritual and the Bible and long history that nation was rejected by Christ. At Matthew 21:43 Jesus said the kingdom would be taken away from them and given to a nation bearing it's fruits.

And it was because of those leaders who were guilty of murder and hypocrisy their “house” was abandoned and those who would follow Christ had to abandon it too or perish in 70 a.d.

Now that the crop is ripe who are weeds is quite evident as one scandal after another come to fruition.

[Cronos]

Good that we agree that there was not Total Apostasy (as the Mormons call it), however, the Apostasy that Paul talks about was localised and his letters stamped it out. That is related to his message of ensuring that the Good News is handed down to reputable men

The various heresies that we see and have seen, are the weeds that died quickly even though they seemed so strong at one point in time -- Arianism, Manichaenism, Gnosticism, etc. etc.

Just in the same way we see both the heresies that have sprung up in the past 100-150 years (Mormonism, Adventism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists) as dying out, and even the other, incomplete messages of faith are dying out as they are not strong enough to stand up to the light

Now that the crop is ripe who are weeds is quite evident as one scandal after another come to fruition. -- yes, this is visible in the various groups outside the Apostolic Church -- they are roiled with one scandal of their dogma after another

The Apostolic Church itself may have faulty men in laity and clergy, but the dogma is scandal-free as it is the dogma of the Christ Himself.

THAT is the big difference between the One Holy Apostolic Church (Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental) and both the incomplete groups and the heresies -- the incompletes and the heresies die out rapidly due to scandals of men, while for the Church that Christ founded, it has remained through 2000 years INSPITE of faulty men.

[Cronos]

And good point about how the various groups (both the incompletes and the heresies like the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons etc.) are dying out, roiled by one scandal after another.

These groups that lie outside the Apostolic Church are groups of men, formed by men and dependent on just men. hence they fall when the many scandals and faults of men appear

In contrast in the Apostolic Church, if we have a sin filled priest (and hey, they are human after all), that matters not. If they are criminals boot them in prison, that doesn't affect our Church. If they can't preach, that matters not.

Because we look beyond this human vessel and focus on Christ in the Eucharist

During our Holy Prayer to God, what do we have?

1. We enter in holding aloft the Word of God, singing praises to God
2. We hear the Word of God, we meditate on this
3. we sing praises to God, recite glorious psalms, dwell our thoughts on God
4. and then, my friend, we experience a marvelous, miraculous experience, the Eucharist! Why is it all of this? Because we witness God's sacrifice, His giving of Himself to us, we look on in awe at Jesus Christ, our Lord, God and Savior in the Eucharist, fulfilling His promise to us and giving us the graces in communion
5. We recite the Nicene Creed acknowledging our Triune God
6. We pray to the Father as Jesus taught us to pray
7. We experience the blessings of the Holy Spirit, the grace, the freely given grace granted through the Spirit.
8. We pray in silence, contemplating this supernatural experience
9. We greet one another, brothers and sisters, all sharing in this ONE experience along with millions of our brothers and sisters across the world, stretching back to the Apostles and forward to His return
10. We leave the Church with joy, Christ in our hearts and the Holy Spirit indwelling in us with the grace of the Father.

oh, my friend in Christ, we are blessed to have experienced this -- and where does the minister figure in all of this? He is just a tool, a means. God uses splendid tools or weak ones, but they are just tools

What is at the centre of our Churches? Not like in others, the pulpit, glorifying the preacher, but in Our Church the center-piece is the altar with the Eucharist, the Bible and the Cross, remembering us of Our Risen Lord, His sacrifice and His Word