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To: UriÂ’el-2012

Catholic doctrine does not teach other than Mary a sinner in need of a Savior. The difference is in when she received the grace of Jesus.

I admit to having never heard the word replacmentarianism which doesn’t seem to be an actual word but I am guessing is one used by some to express a certain understanding of other beliefs.

This is also a guess, that it seems in the context in which you are using it, it means the belief that the Christian church has replaced the Jewish faith?

I do not think that is what I am espousing in regards to this discussion.

Joseph did not live before Moses and like all the Jews of his time, was under the law as given by God to Moses. When Joseph is spoken of as a righteous man, it is in regards to the law of the time, not as one under the new covenant which imparts righteousness to us through grace and not the law.

One cannot view each historical and pivotal person in the Bible through the same lens, as God has given them each a unique role.


736 posted on 09/05/2011 12:53:00 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Jvette
Replacement theology is one of their manufactured weasel words. It is a word used by the likes of Harold Camping /Rapture/ friends of Israel. They like to bandy it about and their biblical defense of same belief defies rationality. This belief is only superseded by their belief in UFO"s. They think they will convert the Jew to Jesus but in reality most Jews today are secular humanist agnostics who despise God and Christianity.

These rapture types have created their own theological basis for belief which is really Beyond Belief. Read Alan Dershowitz "Vanishing American Jew" to understand the place of religion in the life of most Jews and how these rapture types/ friends of Israel, are in essence ridiculed by most of the secular Jews.

The beliefs held by this bunch is a joke and any serious discussion with them is pointless.

742 posted on 09/05/2011 1:15:17 PM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
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To: Jvette
Catholic doctrine does not teach other than Mary a sinner in need of a Savior. The difference is in when she received the grace of Jesus.

I admit to having never heard the word replacmentarianism which doesn’t seem to be an actual word but I am guessing is one used by some to express a certain understanding of other beliefs.

This is also a guess, that it seems in the context in which you are using it, it means the belief that the Christian church has replaced the Jewish faith?

I do not think that is what I am espousing in regards to this discussion.

Joseph did not live before Moses and like all the Jews of his time, was under the law as given by God to Moses. When Joseph is spoken of as a righteous man, it is in regards to the law of the time, not as one under the new covenant which imparts righteousness to us through grace and not the law.

One cannot view each historical and pivotal person in the Bible through the same lens, as God has given them each a unique role.

Mary received salvation when ever she called on YHvH for her salvation.
20 But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord
appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not
be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been
conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus
(Which means in Hebrew: YHvH be/is my salvation), for He
will save His people from their sins."

22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord
through the prophet:

23 "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A
SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated
means, "GOD WITH US."

It seems that Joseph knew it before Mary.

The term replacmentarianism is used on FR as shorthand for
Replacement Theology which has been taught by the Roman "church"
since 325CE in Nicaea.

NAsbU Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
750 posted on 09/05/2011 1:28:39 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Jvette; Quix; metmom; presently no screen name; CynicalBear
Catholic doctrine does not teach other than Mary a sinner in need of a Savior. The difference is in when she received the grace of Jesus.

Sorry - - but sadly you're wrong. From the Catechism of the [Roman} Catholic Church:

"969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."

Emphasis mine.

Well, it appears here that the Roman Catholic Church teaches (as this is a direct quote from the Roman Catholic Catechism, from the Vatican website) that Mary is an intercessor for mankind -- that she brings gifts of eternal salvation. It also ascribes to her the title of 'Mediatrix.' This is NOT Biblical....

1 Tim. 2:5-6:

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time."

One mediator. Not two. Yet the Roman Catholic Church teaches that Mary is a Mediatrix. Who is right? God's word, or the Roman Catholic Catechism?

The Roman Catholic Church also teaches that she is a co-redemptrix with Christ:

"494 At the announcement that she would give birth to "the Son of the Most High" without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that "with God nothing will be impossible": "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word."139 Thus, giving her consent to God's word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God's grace:"

Emphasis mine.

"..to serve the mystery of redemption WITH HIM...." Really? According the Jesus Christ himself in John 14:6:

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Who to believe? Jesus, or the Roman Catholic Church?

Hoss. "

784 posted on 09/05/2011 2:25:45 PM PDT by HossB86 (Christ, and Him alone.)
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