Innocent III as an example.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Posted on 09/02/2011 9:07:47 AM PDT by marshmallow
Minneapolis, Minnesota (CNN) –Prior to 2006, few people even knew that then-Minnesota state legislator Keith Ellison was a Muslim. Because of his English name, he said, no one thought to ask.
But five years ago, when he ran for a seat in the United States House of Representatives - a race he would go on to win - word of his religious affiliation began to spread.
“When I started running for Congress it actually took me by surprise that so many people were fascinated with me being the first Muslim in Congress,” said Ellison, a Democrat now serving his third term in the House.
“But someone said to me, ‘Look Keith, think of a person of Japanese origin running for Congress six years after Pearl Harbor–this might be a news story.’”
Though Ellison's status as the first Muslim elected to Congress is widely known, fewer are aware that he was born into a Catholic family in Detroit and was brought up attending Catholic schools.
But he said he was never comfortable with that faith.
“I just felt it was ritual and dogma,” Ellison said. “Of course, that’s not the reality of Catholicism, but it’s the reality I lived. So I just kind of lost interest and stopped going to Mass unless I was required to.”
It wasn’t until he was a student at Wayne State University in Detroit when Ellison began, “looking for other things.”
(Excerpt) Read more at religion.blogs.cnn.com ...
Well, you quote one thing and then “prove” another.
Mary needed a savior and her Savior is Jesus.
What you have quoted are attributes of Mary which come to her through the FULLNESS of her GRACE which she received from Jesus, just as we do.
Again and again and again I explain that Mary would not be any of those things without her Son. The Catholic church does not say that she is EQUAL or ABOVE the Trinity.
Nothing in that passage says otherwise. Is the gift of salvation Jesus? Then she did indeed bear the gift of salvation to the world.
And if one truly reads what is written in official doctrine of the Church, one will see that Mary always draws her spiritual children to her Son.
Protestants do not see her that way, and I have never vilified or condemned one for lacking that devotion. The same cannot be said for protestants toward me and my belief.
Vilify me if you will, but at least do it for my real beliefs and not the warped presentations of it made here.
Well, I didn't say that. I said she was part of it, and she was the first one to be disobedient. At least that's how the text reads to me. Paul is pretty clear:
As in Adam all die,so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
Sin came into the world by one man...
I think in this sort of thinking there is an analogy being made. At the highest and most important level the opposition is between Adam and Christ. But in an analogous way an opposition is suggested between Eve and Mary, but it is only our opponents who think we consider Mary's redemptive work to be on a level with Christ's. There's just a provocative similarity.
Oh, it's far, far worse. We teach that YOU are an intercessor for all mankind.
The page does not list any definite date of composition. As a matter of fact, the page says that we need to treat the Gospel as if it were really written by St. Matthew. And we Catholics do. It also says:
Although the author of the first Gospel has the dogmatic and apologetic purpose of proving to the Jews that Jesus is the Messias foretold by the prophets and born of the house of David, and although he is not always chronological in arranging the facts or sayings which he records, his narration is not to be regarded as lacking truth.
The author of the first Gospel (not Matthew definitely) and chronology is also under question. We are instructed to proceed as if they are correct, because, since the Church has canonized Scripture, it is Scripture.
The idea that sin comes through the father is interesting. I do not know but, Thank God, God knows. My understanding is based more on these verses.
Romans 5:14-15 New International Version (NIV) 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come. 15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
I do know that Paul was inspired to write this.
No original copies of any of the books of the New Testament exist. What we have are copies of copies of the originals.
Therefore, without the authority of the Church attesting to the authenticity and accuracy of the copies, how would anyone know what they actually said and who wrote them?
Much appreciated, sir.
Acts 15:28 KJVWhom to believe, the Church or the Holy Spirit?
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us,....
I shall go where I please. Dates and numbers, please, or retract the statement.
First of all when you start calling names the debate is over. Third grade tactics don’t belong here. Check freeper rules.
Second, I gave you the reference to the scripture in Matthew as evidence of how scripture treats the length of a generation. If you are unwilling to use scripture it’s another reason that debate with you is rather futile.
Your unwillingness to study scripture and name calling is reason enough to refuse to debate you and consider your views inconsequential to reason. Therefore from this point forward I will dismiss any input you may have and ignore your responses.
Hunting for Pauline snippets in Protestant posts is like hunting for grass on a lawn.
You told me that a generation is the life span of an individual. You are wrong and I showed you. You tried to waffle your way into bafflement and I did not go there.
If you do not like being called out, then provide real evidence. You referenced Psalm 90. And? So what? What evidence does Psalm 90 provide towards your claims.
If you can't run with the Christians, stay on the porch.
Innocent III as an example.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
My Eve thinking may be changing. This may be a teachable moment. I was just amazed that's all. I assumed everyone thought sin came through Adam until today. For me this is not a conviction more of an understanding of the information in scripture. Same now with the Eve component of original sin, It is a mystery, maybe it was a conspiracy?
BTW did Eve have any children before the fall? I always assumed it was Adam, Eve and the serpent alone. God said Eve would have difficulty in child birth. Did she experience non difficult child birth? I do not know but, Thank God, God knows. IMHO The Eve/Mary connection is a stretch for me.
It's a vocabulary question.
But suppose you are right, If concurrent generations are alive at the same time by your usage,which you claim to be Biblical, though I surely don't see the word generation in your quote, then how do you know that the Bible is counting them "end-to-end" so to speak? Where, in so many words, does it say that?
It seems to me you make no distinction between "generation" and "lifetime."
To put it another way, here is what you say, with stresses added:
Psalm 90:10 The years of our lives are 70; and if by reason of strength they be 80 years, yet most of them are labor and sorrow; for life is soon cut off and we fly away.The word generation does not appear in what you quote from Psalm 90. I see no definition of generation. Where exactly is the definition? I see "years of our lives" but the activity of "generation" takes place toward the earlier portion of the "three score and ten years mentioned in Psalm 90. I have never heard it suggested that "lifespan" and "generation" were synonyms in or out of the Bible. Where are they explicitly put forth as synonyms?Matthew 1:17 Therefore all the generations from Abraham down to David are 14 generations; and from David down to the Babylonian captivity are 14 generations; and from the Babylonian captivity down to the anointed, are 14 generations.
Matthew is using the Psalm 90 definitions of Generation in order to tell a specific chronological time story. The first interval of that story is strictly historical, the interval from Abraham to David.
I THINK, I could be wrong, that you are assuming what you attempt to prove.
Exactly my point! Thanks. Your church is NOT correct about the Muslims' god. Allah is NOT our Creator God, Jehovah. There are major differences in how the Quran describes Allah and how the Bible describes Jehovah. This is a good site to see what those specific differences are http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/god.htm.
So, regardless of what Muslims may say about worshiping the same God as the Jews and Christians, it is unbelievable that the "theologians" of your church could be so wrong in praising Muslims for something even someone like me knows is not true. So saying Islam is simply a "false worship" or incomplete worship of the true God shows incredible ignorance of their faith. There is just no excuse for your church leaders to state such falsehoods just so that they can appear "ecumenical".
This subject is quite deep and could take much time to wade through but in short....
Mary is called the new Eve and the Ark of the New Covenant.
Eve was created by God without sin. Mary is saved from sin by God at the moment of her creation in the womb(conception).
The Ark of the Covenant was created to hold the Word of God. It was made as specified by God for this and once it held the Word it could not be touched by any human.
God told Jeremiah, “Before I created you in the womb, I selected you; Before you were born, I consecrated you”
Elizabeth tells Mary, “As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.”
So, we see that God works even in babies yet in the womb. And that God sets specific attributes and makes preparation for those who He uses to do His will.
The Church teaches that Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin at the moment of her conception. By the very fact that she had to be preserved, we know that she had to have a Savior.
I don't fear the snippets. I fear the snippet hunters. They are so busy trying to rid the world of the evil Paulinian snippet that they fail to see danger in the 10 foot abominable snow-job man walking right beside them.
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