Posted on 09/02/2011 9:07:47 AM PDT by marshmallow
Minneapolis, Minnesota (CNN) –Prior to 2006, few people even knew that then-Minnesota state legislator Keith Ellison was a Muslim. Because of his English name, he said, no one thought to ask.
But five years ago, when he ran for a seat in the United States House of Representatives - a race he would go on to win - word of his religious affiliation began to spread.
“When I started running for Congress it actually took me by surprise that so many people were fascinated with me being the first Muslim in Congress,” said Ellison, a Democrat now serving his third term in the House.
“But someone said to me, ‘Look Keith, think of a person of Japanese origin running for Congress six years after Pearl Harbor–this might be a news story.’”
Though Ellison's status as the first Muslim elected to Congress is widely known, fewer are aware that he was born into a Catholic family in Detroit and was brought up attending Catholic schools.
But he said he was never comfortable with that faith.
“I just felt it was ritual and dogma,” Ellison said. “Of course, that’s not the reality of Catholicism, but it’s the reality I lived. So I just kind of lost interest and stopped going to Mass unless I was required to.”
It wasn’t until he was a student at Wayne State University in Detroit when Ellison began, “looking for other things.”
(Excerpt) Read more at religion.blogs.cnn.com ...
I believe our bodies will be perfected just as our souls will.
Yeah, and glorified. You’re “same bodies” comment needed to be adjusted.
As I posted on another thread to you I should post here for others to see. As I showed you, we may know about what your Catholic Church says you must believe then you do.
You said the bodily assumption of Mary was not a doctrine of the church and here is how I responded.
Well, you need to tell the Popes, catholic.com, newwordencyclopedia and many others of that because they all say it is.
Pope Pius XII solemnly defined in Munificentissimus Deus on Nov. 1, 1950, that the "Immaculate Mother of God, the ever-virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory."
The doctrine of the Assumption says that at the end of her life on earth Mary was assumed, body and soul, into heaven, just as Enoch, Elijah, and perhaps others had been before her. It’s also necessary to keep in mind what the Assumption is not. Some people think Catholics believe Mary "ascended" into heaven. That’s not correct. Christ, by his own power, ascended into heaven. Mary was assumed or taken up into heaven by God. She didn’t do it under her own power.
The Church has never formally defined whether she died or not, and the integrity of the doctrine of the Assumption would not be impaired if she did not in fact die, but the almost universal consensus is that she did die. Pope Pius XII, in Munificentissimus Deus (1950), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life" (note the silence regarding her death), "was assumed body and soul into the glory of heaven." [http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp]
Although the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary may somewhat controversially [http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Assumption_of_Mary]
The wasn’t part of any church untill the 5th century. It’s absent in scripture.
“The belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary is founded on the apocryphal treatise De Obitu S. Dominae, bearing the name of St. John, which belongs however to the fourth or fifth century. It is also found in the book De Transitu Virginis, falsely ascribed to St. Melito of Sardis, and in a spurious letter attributed to St. Denis the Areopagite” (Catholic Encyclopaedia).
The first church author to speak on the assumption, Gregory of Tours, based his teaching on the Transitus, perhaps because he accepted it as genuine. However, in 459 A.D. Pope Gelasius issued a decree that officially condemned and rejected the Transitus along with several other heretical writings. Pope Hormisdas reaffirmed this decree in the sixth century. It is ironic that this heretical teaching was later promoted within the Catholic Church, until eventually it was proclaimed a dogma in the twentieth century.
Looks like you really need to believe also or be considered “fallen away”.
The Roman Church solemnly warns anyone who “should dare willfully to deny or to call into doubt that which we have defined (i.e. the Assumption), let him know that he has fallen away completely from the divine and Catholic Faith (Munificentissimus Deus).
The apostates are the ones who have invented this doctrine. The faithful are those who, together with the early Christians, have remained steadfast in upholding the faith of the New Testament.
I think you Catholics had better do some intense study of what your Catholic Church used to be and how far they have fallen away. Notice how the whold concept was based on writings that were origianlly declared haresy.
Just show us some scripture, that Christ SENT the church
The Father sent the Son.. The Son is the cornerstone of the church on which He BUILT His church ...
Do you deny that the church says only Christ could keep the law perfectly?
But nobody knows for sure, so why bother with it?
Isn't Scripture enough for you? Doesn't it contain enough material to keep you busy the rest of your life? What is it lacking that needs to be filled in?
The same body which we possess will be glorified. That means it will be as God intended when He created us. It is not God’s intention that people should be born without limbs or suffer the loss of their use.
We will be made whole both body and soul.
You twisted his words - he never said the Catholic Church saves.
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You twisted his words - he never said the Catholic Church saves.
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That is rampant around here.
Remember the twister game? It’s played here all the time.
Thanks - Jesus on the Cross Saves - Catholics are well aware - that is why we have the body on the cross in our churches and the stations
Jesus on the Cross suffers. Then He dies. Then He takes His shed blood to God the Father for remission of our sins. With our sins being paid in full, God the Father raises Jesus from the dead, and He ascends to Heaven to sit at the right hand of God. The empty tomb is the guarantee that our sins were paid in full by Christ’s finished work. It’s the empty tomb that gives us assurance that the suffering on the Cross was for us. Get Him off your Crosses. HE IS RISEN. He is not suffering anymore. He IS VICTORIOUS. NOT THE PERPETUAL VICTIM hanging on a cross.
Sorry - you were responding to someone else - - the many here who grew up catholic but left by God’s leading were lead out by Satan.
Col. 1:24 is the answer. Look it up and pray upon it.
He is not a perpetual Victim - Of Course Not!!
He died once for all - but we have to do our own part.
As with everything that may not be apparent immediately- we need to read the complete text in its context.
Matt 23:1-12: “Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, v.2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. "Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. "For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. "But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. "They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, "greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, 'Rabbi, Rabbi.' "But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. "And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. "And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
After this is said Jesus goes into 7 woes to the Pharisees that were also present.
The Old Testament may not say these exact words “Moses' seat,” but there are lots of terms and phrases that are interpreted in the New Testament that have its roots and meaning in the Old Testament. The phrase has the idea of wanting to be the leaders of Israel as Moses was. The Pharisees were public teachers that had the office of explaining that Law and it was the custom to sit while they expounded the law and prophets (Matthew 5:1; Luke 4:20-22).
By the seat of Moses, it meant that they had the authority to teach the law. And Jesus affirms that they should be listen to as they read Moses’ law for it was the Scripture. But then He tells the people not to act the way they do “for they say, and do not do.” They went beyond the law (called the tradition of the elders (Mk.7 where they made void the commandments of God by their own laws which became the tradition they obeyed.)
In other words do as they say (as long as it is Scripture) but don’t do what they do (living in their tradition).
Had they taught what Moses taught and lived it, Jesus would have had no rebuke. Jesus then points out how they want the best of everything and be noticed because of their teaching position, he then explains they are to be servants, not self exalting themselves and that He instead of they should be their teacher. http://letusreason.org/Biblexp66.htm
John 8:31-32So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
John 17:8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.
John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
1 Corinthians 2:13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
2 Corinthians 4:2 But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Colossians 1:3-8 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love that you have for all the saints, 5because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and growing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth, just as you learned it from Epaphras our beloved fellow servant. He is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf and has made known to us your love in the Spirit.
2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
What gobbly goop is that! Never said God has traditions, but you would likely see as such since your church holds those equal to the scriptures. I made it clear what I said and still you fumble.
Bottom line your church puts on the same level as scripture 'Your" traditions, which are 'mans' traditions...which Jesus warned us not to listen to.
How you managed to post the goobly goop in that statement reveals you're more than likely stuck on seeing what you want to see.. not what is written...so naturally easy to assume the same would apply to your view of scripture. It must support what you desire over and above what it really says regardless of the twisting it may take you to frame it to your liking...it has to be made to fit your belief.
Very nice and well explained...
Jesus said The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do. Mat 23:2-3. In this later time, Judaism is divided into many sects and fragments; Which one sits in the seat of Moses today? Are we bound by Christ, to do EVERYTHING they say? Why do many leaders in the Church of God say that we are bound to obey the Rabbins on issues like the Calendar, but not on other issues? Did Christ mean that they should be obeyed, even if they go contrary to God's Word? Deu 13. Did He exalt them above God? Who really sits in authority in this latter day? To whom should the follower of Christ look; to those who reject Him or to the Priesthood of the New Covenant?
Moses was the MEDIATOR of the Old Covenant and those who came after him, administered that covenant on his behalf. For this reason, Christ said that the Pharisees sat in Moses' seat. The Pharisees were the administrators of the Old Covenant. Now if that covenant be passed away; What authority do it's administrators continue to have? Consider this. The Old Covenant was a MARRIAGE COVENANT Jer 3:14, Isa 54:5. When one of the parties to a marriage dies, the marriage ends and the other party is no longer bound 1 Cor 7:39. When CHRIST died, HIS MARRIAGE TO ISRAEL ENDED! The Old or Mosaic Covenant of marriage between CHRIST and ISRAEL ENDED when the Husband DIED! The seat of Moses passed into history; there was no longer an Old Covenant to administer! The seat of Moses lost all authority with the end of the Mosaic Covenant! With the resurrection of Christ and later His acceptance by the Father and the giving of the Holy Spirit on Wave Offering Sunday Joh 20:22 a coming New Covenant was confirmed and made sure. And Jesus Christ became a High Priest forever, after the order of Malchisedec Heb 5:5-6. And we are being prepared to become His Priests Rev 5:10 and 20:6. YES friends, the Children of God are in training to become the Priests of God, through our High Priest, Jesus Christ. NO, we are NOT the priests of Moses, NO we are Not some kind of Levites. We shall be Priests of the Eternal Priesthood of Melchisedec at our choosing and change. We shall be the Priests of ALMIGHTY GOD working to bring in the Harvest of ALL Mankind.
In history, we know that the King of Babylon sacked Jerusalem and took away Judah captive. Sometime later he returned and conquered Egypt, destroying those Jews who had fled there against the advise of Jeremiah. Judah remained in Babylon where so many became accustomed to life there, that less than 5% returned to Judah, when they were allowed to do so. God motivated those who had truly repented to return to Judea. The remainder, who had been removed for their sin, continued in their sin. They tried to reconcile to the ways of Babylon and in doing so wrote the Talmud. This adulterous marriage with the religion of Babylon, produced the Hellenic Pharisees. Judaism today is a blend of Moses and the worldliness of Babylon, in much the same way that Christianity blended with the paganism of Europe. These people were NOT the ones that Christ declared, sat in Moses' seat. The Pharisees about whom Christ spoke were the Pharisees who had descended from the repentant Jews who had returned to Judea and Jerusalem!
Now we know, that Judea and Jerusalem were destroyed, and the Mosaic Pharisees with them, by the Romans, sometime after the resurrection of Christ. Therefore, the Rabbins of today are NOT the heirs of the Pharisees that Christ was talking about. Today's Rabbins are the heirs of the Hellenic Pharisees! If there is any doubt of this, just ask; Why is the Talmud more important today than the writings of Moses? The Torah gives the Words of God. The Talmud provides the reasoning to evade doing God's Word. For example: It is written; Thou shall not take thy neighbours wife. So the Talmud says that your neighbour is the one that lives next to you. If he lives further away, you may seduce his wife. In the same way, they used human reasoning to corrupt God's Calendar. Why should we rely on those who reject Christ for our beliefs and not rely upon God's Word? To rely upon men and not upon God's Word is the SIN of IDOLITRY! To rely upon the enemies of Christ to teach us how to please Christ is FOOLISHNESS!
I have shown that the Rabbins of today are NOT the heirs of the Mosaic Pharisees that Christ was speaking of, for those Mosaic Pharisees were wiped out by the Romans. I have also shown that the seat of Moses, the administrator of the Old Covenant, no longer carries any authority, for that covenant has now ceased to exist. To whom shall we look for guidance on spiritual matters? First to our Father, through prayer and His Word, for it is written, honour thy father. Second we are to stand on the foundation of the apostles and prophets (those who wrote the Holy Scriptures) and Jesus Christ Eph 2:20. Jesus Christ being our High Priest, offering Himself for us, we are to rely on Him. Third we are to follow the teachers that God has given us, but ONLY as they follow the Father, the Holy Scriptures and Jesus Christ!
http://www.christianwalks.org/ShiningLight/seat_of_moses.htm
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The Old Testament may not say these exact words “Moses’ seat,” but there are lots of terms and phrases that are interpreted in the New Testament that have its roots and meaning in the Old Testament.
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Really? Sounds Catholic to me.
Not until just now when I looked it up. :o)
I is like when Paul spoke to the Romans about having the word in our hearts and our mouths. That requires reading, meditating and even singing the words of God in order to have THE Word near to us. A lot like the Jews did with the Psalms as do many Christians today as well as other Scripture passages. Good idea for everyone!
Romans 10:8-10
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
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