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To: Mad Dawg; caww; metmom; boatbums
>>Some opponents don't need us. In fact we're an inconvenience because we interrupt their preposterous and shallow accounts of our supposed beliefs with what we do in fact believe. They prefer shadow-boxing with its empty victories and specious condescension.<<

As I posted on another thread to you I should post here for others to see. As I showed you, we may know about what your Catholic Church says you must believe then you do.

You said the bodily assumption of Mary was not a doctrine of the church and here is how I responded.

Well, you need to tell the Popes, catholic.com, newwordencyclopedia and many others of that because they all say it is.

Pope Pius XII solemnly defined in Munificentissimus Deus on Nov. 1, 1950, that the "Immaculate Mother of God, the ever-virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory."

The doctrine of the Assumption says that at the end of her life on earth Mary was assumed, body and soul, into heaven, just as Enoch, Elijah, and perhaps others had been before her. It’s also necessary to keep in mind what the Assumption is not. Some people think Catholics believe Mary "ascended" into heaven. That’s not correct. Christ, by his own power, ascended into heaven. Mary was assumed or taken up into heaven by God. She didn’t do it under her own power.

The Church has never formally defined whether she died or not, and the integrity of the doctrine of the Assumption would not be impaired if she did not in fact die, but the almost universal consensus is that she did die. Pope Pius XII, in Munificentissimus Deus (1950), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life" (note the silence regarding her death), "was assumed body and soul into the glory of heaven." [http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp]

Although the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary may somewhat controversially [http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Assumption_of_Mary]

The wasn’t part of any church untill the 5th century. It’s absent in scripture.

“The belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary is founded on the apocryphal treatise De Obitu S. Dominae, bearing the name of St. John, which belongs however to the fourth or fifth century. It is also found in the book De Transitu Virginis, falsely ascribed to St. Melito of Sardis, and in a spurious letter attributed to St. Denis the Areopagite” (Catholic Encyclopaedia).

The first church author to speak on the assumption, Gregory of Tours, based his teaching on the Transitus, perhaps because he accepted it as genuine. However, in 459 A.D. Pope Gelasius issued a decree that officially condemned and rejected the Transitus along with several other heretical writings. Pope Hormisdas reaffirmed this decree in the sixth century. It is ironic that this heretical teaching was later promoted within the Catholic Church, until eventually it was proclaimed a dogma in the twentieth century.

Looks like you really need to believe also or be considered “fallen away”.

The Roman Church solemnly warns anyone who “should dare willfully to deny or to call into doubt that which we have defined (i.e. the Assumption), let him know that he has fallen away completely from the divine and Catholic Faith (Munificentissimus Deus).

The apostates are the ones who have invented this doctrine. The faithful are those who, together with the early Christians, have remained steadfast in upholding the faith of the New Testament.

I think you Catholics had better do some intense study of what your Catholic Church used to be and how far they have fallen away. Notice how the whold concept was based on writings that were origianlly declared haresy.

3,943 posted on 09/17/2011 5:11:40 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 8:31-32So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

John 17:8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.

John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

1 Corinthians 2:13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

2 Corinthians 4:2 But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Colossians 1:3-8 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love that you have for all the saints, 5because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and growing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth, just as you learned it from Epaphras our beloved fellow servant. He is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf and has made known to us your love in the Spirit.

2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

3,955 posted on 09/17/2011 7:45:55 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: CynicalBear

Mary certainly has no grave. That is very telling.


4,002 posted on 09/18/2011 5:36:46 AM PDT by stonehouse01
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