Mormon men waiting longer to marry, worrying church officials

Sacramento Bee ^ | August 30, 2011 | Jennifer Garza

[Zakeet]

You may be right but there is evidence that could lead one to believe He was married, certainly there is evidence that the Templars believed He was married.

I'd like to see it!

Before you go to too much trouble on a futile exercise, you should know that the best selling book, Holy Blood, Holy Grail: The Secret History of Jesus, the Shocking Legacy of the Grail, has been completely debunked to the point where even it's authors admit it is a total fraud. And as you probably know, this book serves as the source for all of Dan Brown's crazy theories expressed in his best selling (and completely debunked) book, The Da Vinci Code.

[Zakeet]

The preceding post was really directed to JAKraig.

I apologize to Greyfoxx for the confusion.

I tend to get upset and distracted when someone blasphemes my Lord.

I will try to maintain better composure in the future.

[elcid1970]

Many of Jesus’ miracles had practical consequences beside His exertion of miraculous power. The man born blind to whom Jesus gave sight was expelled from the Temple for thanking Him.

At the wedding feast the head steward sampled unknowingly the miraculous wine, then summoned the bridegroom and criticized him for saving the best wine for when the guests were too inebriated to appreciate its quality.

By the way, how does LDS explain the wedding feast with all its references to the consumption of alcohol? My Biblethumping coworkers said Jesus turned water into grape juice! I countered if drinking wine is so bad, why isn’t it written that Jesus said to His mother, “I will not contribute to an atmosphere of drunkeness at this feast. Let them drink water or I’ll change it into fruit juice for them.”

And now that I think of it, how did Mary His mother know in the first place that her Son had such powers that she had only to say, “Son, they have no wine.”?

How, indeed? Thoughts?

[Scoutmaster]

Jesus never married. . . . [C]ertainly there is evidence that the Templars believed He was married.

To my knowledge, it's not official LDS doctrine, but several LDS Apostles believed Jesus was married (and polygamous).

In Journal of Discourses 2:81, LDS Apostle Orson Hyde said that "Mary and Martha, and other women that followed [Jesus]" were his wives. In discussing the wedding in Cana, Hyde also stated:

Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. If any man can show this, and prove that it was not the Savior of the world, then I will acknowledge I am in error. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified.

Journal of Discourses 2:82.

Hyde later stated:

I discover that some of the Eastern papers represent me as a great blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on Marriage, at our last Conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children.

Journal of Discourses 2:210.

In his book, The Seer (page 159), LDS Apostle Orson Pratt stated:

One thing is certain, that there were several holy women that greatly loved Jesus -- such as Mary, and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene; and Jesus greatly loved them, and associated with them much; and when He arose from the dead, instead of showing Himself to His chosen witnesses, the Apostles, He appeared first to these women, or at least to one of them -- namely, Mary Magdalene. Now it would be natural for a husband in the resurrection to appear first to his own dear wives, and afterwards show himself to his other friends. If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women were His wives.

Apostle Wilford Woodruff and First Presidency Member Joseph F. Smith believed that Jesus was married to at least Mary and Martha. The source is Wilford Woodruff's Journal 8:187.

All of these sources are LDS sources and not 'anti-Mormon" sources. LDS members have the same rights to their beliefs as any other members of Free Republic.

When The DaVinci Code was popular, I believe the LDS church stated that leaders in the church had stated their own opinions as to Jesus's marriage(s), but that it was not church doctrine.

[Tennessee Nana]

My Biblethumping coworkers said Jesus turned water into grape juice!
____________________________________

yeah or some claim VERY waterede down wine...

HELLO ???

They were celebrating...

IT WAS WINE

[Tennessee Nana]

To my knowledge, it’s not official LDS doctrine....Apostle Wilford Woodruff and First Presidency Member Joseph F. Smith
_____________________________________

AH yes well

both these guys moved on up to mormon prophet...

Neither denounced the idea that their mormon jesus was married to many women at the same time and also fathered children by them...

So as it was ex-cathedra from mormon PROPHETS it was DOCTRINE

so now you KNOW...

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Their term of “free agency” to them refers to their being able to choose good or bad but they also believe that their children need to be able to choose their lifestyle and their own relationships. They really believe live and let live. “

What are you smokin’?

Mormonism is ALL about control and compliance.

Let a mormon leave the hive and watch the scorn fall down hard on them.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“You may be right but there is evidence that could lead one to believe He was married”

What are you smokin’?

There is no evidence that Jesus Christ married. That is a cultic tale.

[svcw]

Not official - that’s interesting.
If it were not official, why did the lds agree to end it?
If it were not official they could have just said to the feds to bugger off.
The ending of polygamy was official, you cannot end something officially if it’s not official.
And there were all those groups who claimed it was official and were so angered by the cave on the part of SLC that they left and started living the official doctrine.

[Tennessee Nana]

Gosh and you left off what mormon prophet Briggie Young had to say about the mormon jesus and whether he was married with children or not...

When the “Gentiles” stated that polygamy was one of the “relics of barbarism,” Brigham Young replied: “Yes, one of the relics of Adam, of Enoch, of Noah, of Abraham, of Isaac, of Jacob, of Moses, David, Solomon, the Prophets, of Jesus, and his Apostles” (JD vol. 11, p. 328).

On another occasion Young said: “The Scripture says that He, the LORD, came walking in the Temple, with His train; I do not know who they were, unless His wives and children ...” (JD vol. 13, p. 309).

Young was the mormon prophet when he said that...

[Scoutmaster]

If it were not official, why did the lds agree to end it?

I was trying to state that the LDS church says the teachings of its Apostles that Jesus was married isn't its doctrine. I'm only going by what the LDS church says because I am not LDS (nor any denomination arising from or related to Joseph Smith).

My understanding is that the LDS church's statement about "not official" didn't have anything to do with whether polygamy was official, just the LDS Apostles' teachings about Jesus being married and polygamous.

[svcw]

One of the clever things mormonISM does is say that what previous leaders/prophets say in not relevant only what the current leaders/prophets say is what is rule.
Both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young taught that polygamy was the only way men could reach godhood in the next life. Fortunately the lds god came down and told lds that he changed his mind, just in time for Utah to become a state, wasn’t that ever so convenient.

[Admin Moderator]

TN, please don't post FReepmails on open threads.

Scoutmaster, TN asked that you stop FReepmailing her, please respect that request.

[Tennessee Nana]

the mormons claim that this is an example if how the mormon god and the mormon jesus earned the right as mortal men to become gods...

Brigham Young declared on August 19, 1866: “The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269).

[Tennessee Nana]

Thank you

[Tennessee Nana]

In #24 you said “To my knowledge, it’s not official LDS doctrine”

and then you went on to quote mormon apostles and others but no mormon prophets...

I just added Young the mormon prophet to show it was mormon doctrine...

If the mormon prophet said it then it is so etc...ex-cathedra and all that...

In reality The LORD Jesus Christ was not married and had no physical children...The Christian Bible makes it clear..

although the mormons claim that He was, that was only to excuse their adultery and fornication and unrighteousness..

They also claimed that Abraham and Isaac were polygamists but they were not...

Abraham committed ADULTERY with Hagar and Isaac only had 1 wife, Rebecca..

The LORD Jesus Christ only has ONE Bride, His church and He has not been married to her as yet...we believers are His Bride..

The Marriage Supper of the Lamb will take place in Heaven after the Rapture...after we go there ..

[MarkBsnr]

I once went to a mormom wedding and the funny thing was, I didn’t. They didn’t let us watch the ceremony, only the reception. Odd.

That's because it's rated PG 1/100. If you have not gone through the Temple ceremony, you cannot attend Mormon ceremonies unless you are too young to understand or else you are too senile to understand and too addled to tell others how ridiculous the ceremony is.

[MarkBsnr]

My Biblethumping coworkers said Jesus turned water into grape juice! ____________________________________

yeah or some claim VERY waterede down wine... HELLO ??? They were celebrating... IT WAS WINE

And it was the very best wine. And believe me, Jews know their wine, especially at weddings...

John 2:6* Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings,d each holding twenty to thirty gallons. 7Jesus told them, “Fill the jars with water.” So they filled them to the brim. 8Then he told them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.”* So they took it. 9And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom 10and said to him, “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now.”

Does anyone doubt that Our Lord produced the best wine in the world?

[Elsie]

And sometimes for other reasons, according to church President Thomas Monson.

"Men are having a little too much fun being single, taking extravagant vacations, buying expensive cars and toys, and just generally enjoying the carefree life with your friends," Monson said in a speech to the Worldwide General Conference of the church in April.

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What is your church doing to help the male to stay true?

 

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"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982

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"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82

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"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65

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"Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196

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"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.

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"I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965

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"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155

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"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.