"Intimidation tactic"? WHAT "intimidation tactic" am I using?
Posted on 08/18/2011 7:18:16 AM PDT by marshmallow
So why is the seal of confession inviolable? Why does the seal bind under such a grave obligation that the Church excommunicates any confessor who directly violates it? (See: The seal of confession: some basics)
There are two principal reasons why the priest must preserve the seal: the virtue of justice and the virtue of religion. The motive of justice is evident because the penitent, by the very fact of entering the confessional, or asking the priest to hear his confession (we’ll deal with “reconciliation rooms” another day) rightly expects that the priest will observe the seal. This is a contract entered into by the fact of the priest agreeing to hear a person’s confession. To mandate the violation of the seal is in effect to prohibit the celebration of the sacrament of Penance.
Much more grave than the obligation of justice towards the penitent is the obligation of religion due to the sacrament. The Catholic Encyclopaedia gives a brief explanation of the virtue of religion which essentially summarises the teaching of St Thomas Aquinas. (Summa Theologica 2a 2ae q.81) Religion is a moral virtue by which we give to God what is His due; it is, as St Thomas says, a part of justice. In the case of the sacrament of Penance, instituted by Christ, Fr Felix Cappello explains things well [my translation]:
By the very fact that Christ permitted, nay ordered, that all baptised sinners should use the sacrament and consequently make a secret confession, he granted an absolutely inviolable right, transcending the order of natural justice, to use this remedy. Therefore the knowledge which was their own before confession, after the communication made in confession, remains their own for every non-sacramental use, and that by a power altogether sacred, which no contrary human law can strike out, since every human law is of an inferior order: whence this right cannot be taken away or overridden by any means, or any pretext, or any motive.
The penitent confesses his sins to God through the priest. If the seal were to be broken under some circumstances, it would put people off the sacrament and thereby prevent them from receiving the grace that they need in order to repent and amend their lives. It would also, and far more importantly, obstruct the will of God for sinners to make use of the sacrament of Penance and thereby enjoy eternal life. The grace of the sacrament is absolutely necessary for anyone who commits a mortal sin. To mandate the violation of the seal is in effect to prohibit the practice of the Catholic faith. Some secular commentators have spoken of the seal of confession as being somehow a right or privilege of the priest. That is a preposterous misrepresentation: it is a sacred and inviolable duty that the priest must fulfil for the sake of the penitent and for the sake of God's will to redeem sinners.
A possibly misleading phrase in this context is where theologians say that the penitent is confessing his sins as if to God "ut Deo." (You can easily imagine secularists deriding the idea that the priest makes himself to be a god etc.) In truth, the penitent is confessing his sins before God. The priest acts as the minister of Christ in a sacred trust which he may not violate for any cause - precisely because he is not in fact God. By virtue of the penitent’s confession ut Deo, the priest absolves the penitent and, if mortal sin is involved, thereby readmits him to Holy Communion.
There will be more to follow on the sacrament of confession. As I mentioned in my previous post, this series is not intended as a guide for making a devout confession but rather as an introduction to some canonical and theological questions regarding the sacrament which have become important recently. (For a leaflet on how to make a good confession, see my parish website.)
I have been told that the threat in Ireland to introduce a law compelling priests to violate the seal of confession has been withdrawn, at least for the time being. Nevertheless, I will continue with these posts because I think that the Irish proposal will be picked up by other secularists and may pose a problem for us. Further posts will look at the proper place, time and vesture for hearing confessions, one or two more particular crimes in canon law, the question of jurisdiction and the much misused expression “Ecclesia supplet”, and, of course, what to do if the civil authority tries to compel a priest to break the seal.
In light of the major issues with the Priesthood and the Bishops it certainly would be understandable any who now should be "running" away from the catholic church, until the trash is taken out. Especially those with children.
That alone would warrant any leaving until the waters run clean....
Matthew 11:28-30 28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
God WANTS us to come to Him. I can’t imagine Jesus sending someone away, telling them they don’t belong.
Pity the nun, or priest, who offends one of the children who come to Jesus.
Just....wow.....
I wouldn’t want to be in her shoes on Judgment Day.
Me getting mixed up???? LOL It's a freaking song, moron!
Ya but it's your song, not his...
There was a time before I was saved that I would slam a loudmouth punk's face down onto the bar when he talked to me like you do...HaHaHa, but for the grace of God...
I know it's a song doofus...Perhaps you couldn't understand the previous post I made to you???
I see the demons are dancing on this thread Metmom. Wow....I don't see that sort of ruthlessness even among non-Christians! Sorry the firey darts are coming at you but then the armor you wear withstands such as we know....but there's more going on here then considering the source I'd say.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Sorry but New Jerusalem where my mansion is being built is a real, physical city, in Heaven...
According to the measurements, it's about 1500 miles, cubed...It's a real city in a real place...
I know, what does real mean???
What hole have you come out of? No excuse for the crap you’re throwing....whose arsenal are you using?
It is real, but it isn’t physical.
Just like a soul. Just like the Father. Just like the Holy Spirit.
Well actually they're not....they hope the balance of good works will offset their badness....most fear death...but Islam teaches no certainty unless you blow yourself up. You know the rest of that story.
I have not been following this thread, but responding to some pings when i get to them, and i kind of lost the context of this. But as often said by evangelicals, “we are saved, (Eph. 2:8) having been washed, sanctified and justified, (1Cor. 6:11) and accepted inn the Beloved” (Eph. 1:6) and are being saved, (2 Cor. 4:16) being made conformable to Christ, and will be saved,” (Rom. 13:11)
For Christ died and rose,
“to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.” (Colossians 1:22-23)
This processing in which the positional becomes the practical, testifying to salvific faith, is done in this life, in which believers can be tempted by the world, the flesh and the devil, and 1 Jn. 5:13 does provide the truth and the criteria by which one may know they presently have eternal life, while 2Pt. 1:1-10 provides for how one may never fall, which danger i see texts such as Gal. 5:1-4 and Heb. 10:26-39 warning of, and thus chastisement is necessary. (1Cor. 12:32)
That's an unbelievable statement. Their purgatory is then another one of their state of beings. I'm actually LMAO how totally deceived they are since it's done deliberately.
Really? 2 Corinthians 5:17k So whoever is in Christ is a new creation: the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come.
1 Corinthians 15: 42* So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown corruptible; it is raised incorruptible. 43It is sown dishonorable; it is raised glorious. It is sown weak; it is raised powerful.v 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual one. 45So, too, it is written, “The first man, Adam,* became a living being,” the last Adam a life-giving spirit.w 46But the spiritual was not first; rather the natural and then the spiritual. 47The first man was from the earth, earthly; the second man, from heaven. 48As was the earthly one, so also are the earthly, and as is the heavenly one, so also are the heavenly. 49Just as we have borne the image of the earthly one, we shall also bear the image* of the heavenly one.x
50* This I declare, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption* inherit incorruption.y 51* Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,z 52in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.a 53For that which is corruptible must clothe itself with incorruptibility, and that which is mortal must clothe itself with immortality.b
Apocalypse 21: 1a Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.* 2I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem,* coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.b 3I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with the human race.c He will dwell with them and they will be his people* and God himself will always be with them [as their God].* 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death or mourning, wailing or pain, [for] the old order has passed away.”d
26The treasure and wealth of the nations will be brought there, 27but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any[one] who does abominable things or tells lies. Only those will enter whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.q
Our entire state of being is changed.
They keep proving "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Better tell that to the image in the mirror. Unbelieveable how much Scripture is jettisoned by you guys in pursuit of the latest heresies.
What I think non-Catholics don't get is that our language is intentionally, well, mind-bending, because the truth is, we think, mind bending.
Specifically we think that God can give what we can hardly imagine being given. So that, finally the seemingly irreconcilable difference between merit and grace is overwhelmed in His Love.
So we pay not just that we may receive the "promises of Christ," but, more outrageously, that "we may be made WORTHY of the Promises of Christ." The entire enchilada! Work an unthinkable in miracle in us so that we may deserve what no human can deserve!
Why offer Him back for the sins of the world, when one needs only to pray to Mary?
two or three answers,from my Uriah-Heepishly humble opinion:
(1)Too many have been influenced by the gloomy and cruel notion of the Catholic Faith experienced by Metmom. For me there's a lot of exuberance -- full measure, not only shaken down and pressed together, but running over! It keeps on coming!
So it's not like,"Oh darn, here's another devotion I have to make" It's, "COOL! I can pray to the Trinity altogether, to each person, to Mary, Dominic, Joseph, Dymphna, Maragaret of Castello ...." and on and on!
In other words, it's not a burden, it's a delight to have recourse to our Lady and the rest of the gang.
And also one tends to be guided to tailor one's devotions to suit one's needs. It may be a matter of Margaret of Castello's being shamefully abandoned by her parents, and her devotee was also similarly abandoned. But it may be somehow deeper. Loosely speaking I would say that Anthony of Padua, by his example and prayers, helped me to reach a deeper understanding of the Incarnation. (not to mention the whole finding the car keys thing ...)
But there's also something it's hard to express. In His love for His creation, God has shown that love is not a feeling. If it's a 'state' It's a dynamic state. Just as it is beyond time, it is beyond stasis.Eternity is not dead, it is full of life, fuller than any creature except possibly angels, could be.
And in this dynamic, as gentleman bows to lady in a dance, there is an eternal offering and accepting of humility and service, an eternal giving and receiving of roses.
Look, dust is not so filthy as I. Filth itself is not so filthy. I speak as a farmer who has looked at straw reeking with the excreta of sheep and seen the resource of richness it represents to paddock and garden.
If I may say so as a farmer, I know, um, excrement and I know that it by itself has more to offer than have I by myself.
But, as if someone asked you to become an earwig, God the Son of God has taken my form.
And having become subject to death, even death on a cross, he has become highly exalted.
AND he shares that life and exaltation beyond imagining with me?
Among my favorite metaphors are a contra-dance and a river. The latter is VERY Biblical, with Psalm 127 and the river from the Temple in Ezekiel as my anchor points. So permit me to stay with the river. It is of the esse of a river that it flow. By flowing it brings life. And the further along the river you go, the deeper it is until you can no longer ford it, but must swim.
And once you swim, oh my, you are done for! In the best possible way.
And what is a river? it is the self giving of the heavens to the mountains, of mountain trickles to rivulets, brooks, and creeks, of creeks to small rivers, of small rivers to the majestic river, incomprehensible in the power and sweep of the mighty water.
And we are invited to swim, to leave behind the fixed earth and to make our way in the mighty water.
That is to say, to be swept away in the flow of giving.
If we were to try to trap some little part of this river, first we would look foolish. But second, if we were to succeed, the water we held would become stagnant, stinking, and dead. The flowing is the life of the river, and our life is to be swept along in the giving and receiving, in the exchange of love. To hold is death, TO yield is life.
So, this it not about outcomes, about "bottom line religion". It is about a life of receiving and letting go, of accepting and giving.
Mary is in the river because in her "fiat" she yielded herself to its flow, and gave the deepest part of herself and her body to the river. You are in the river in offering yourself to the truth of Christ as you, by your best efforts and the grace given you, understand it.
And so the mechanical image of asking this one or asking that one or saying this prayer or lighting that candle is completely and ludicrously inadequate. It is not so much, "What can I do to be saved?" anymore. It is being immersed in and carried by Love toward the great Ocean. Water in us, water around us, great and life giving water everywhere!
There comes a time, with the warm evening and lanterns lit and born along the banks by singing angels when one must yield to song.
And it is in that yielding that we offer what we offer, ask what we ask, and praise what alone is worthy of praise.
If you come to us expecting nothing but quid pro quo, you will get a limp and nasty quid for a very lifeless quo. But if you come because you have heard the call of the river and want to swim with us, then nothing I can say will be adequate.
Jesus Himself said He would be in the earth for three days and three nights. Catholic tradition claiming otherwise makes that a lie, therefore Jesus did not fulfill His own prophecy.
Have you jettisoned the Nicene Creed in your haste to repudiate Catholicism?
1 Corinthians 15: 3* For I handed on to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures;a 4that he was buried; that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures;b
The third day: Friday, Saturday, Sunday. If as you claim, Jesus died on Wednesday, and spent three full days (which is not according to Jewish tradition), we have a Saturday resurrection. Have you wandered that far off of Christianity?
Why do you trouble an already troubled mind with things like logic and Scriptural quotations taken in context and stuff like that?
I know who I am in Christ.
My identity is based on Him, not someone’s opinion of me.
That’s true freedom.
"Intimidation tactic"? WHAT "intimidation tactic" am I using?
(Code of Canon Law 1252). again further evidence law is very much in play throughout their teachings...and that would oppose Grace. This binding, spoken of, draws a mental picture of rope wrapping round and round. That is not freedom.
The catholic woman I worked with always spoke of the food items they were giving up for lent.....then they'd sneak and say they had to go to mass to make up for it.. and then start over again. It was comical to hear them and even they laughed about it.....I never was under the impression these events were at all serious to them, rather something you attempt until lent etc. is over.
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