Posted on 08/18/2011 7:18:16 AM PDT by marshmallow
So why is the seal of confession inviolable? Why does the seal bind under such a grave obligation that the Church excommunicates any confessor who directly violates it? (See: The seal of confession: some basics)
There are two principal reasons why the priest must preserve the seal: the virtue of justice and the virtue of religion. The motive of justice is evident because the penitent, by the very fact of entering the confessional, or asking the priest to hear his confession (well deal with reconciliation rooms another day) rightly expects that the priest will observe the seal. This is a contract entered into by the fact of the priest agreeing to hear a persons confession. To mandate the violation of the seal is in effect to prohibit the celebration of the sacrament of Penance.
Much more grave than the obligation of justice towards the penitent is the obligation of religion due to the sacrament. The Catholic Encyclopaedia gives a brief explanation of the virtue of religion which essentially summarises the teaching of St Thomas Aquinas. (Summa Theologica 2a 2ae q.81) Religion is a moral virtue by which we give to God what is His due; it is, as St Thomas says, a part of justice. In the case of the sacrament of Penance, instituted by Christ, Fr Felix Cappello explains things well [my translation]:
By the very fact that Christ permitted, nay ordered, that all baptised sinners should use the sacrament and consequently make a secret confession, he granted an absolutely inviolable right, transcending the order of natural justice, to use this remedy. Therefore the knowledge which was their own before confession, after the communication made in confession, remains their own for every non-sacramental use, and that by a power altogether sacred, which no contrary human law can strike out, since every human law is of an inferior order: whence this right cannot be taken away or overridden by any means, or any pretext, or any motive.
The penitent confesses his sins to God through the priest. If the seal were to be broken under some circumstances, it would put people off the sacrament and thereby prevent them from receiving the grace that they need in order to repent and amend their lives. It would also, and far more importantly, obstruct the will of God for sinners to make use of the sacrament of Penance and thereby enjoy eternal life. The grace of the sacrament is absolutely necessary for anyone who commits a mortal sin. To mandate the violation of the seal is in effect to prohibit the practice of the Catholic faith. Some secular commentators have spoken of the seal of confession as being somehow a right or privilege of the priest. That is a preposterous misrepresentation: it is a sacred and inviolable duty that the priest must fulfil for the sake of the penitent and for the sake of God's will to redeem sinners.
A possibly misleading phrase in this context is where theologians say that the penitent is confessing his sins as if to God "ut Deo." (You can easily imagine secularists deriding the idea that the priest makes himself to be a god etc.) In truth, the penitent is confessing his sins before God. The priest acts as the minister of Christ in a sacred trust which he may not violate for any cause - precisely because he is not in fact God. By virtue of the penitents confession ut Deo, the priest absolves the penitent and, if mortal sin is involved, thereby readmits him to Holy Communion.
There will be more to follow on the sacrament of confession. As I mentioned in my previous post, this series is not intended as a guide for making a devout confession but rather as an introduction to some canonical and theological questions regarding the sacrament which have become important recently. (For a leaflet on how to make a good confession, see my parish website.)
I have been told that the threat in Ireland to introduce a law compelling priests to violate the seal of confession has been withdrawn, at least for the time being. Nevertheless, I will continue with these posts because I think that the Irish proposal will be picked up by other secularists and may pose a problem for us. Further posts will look at the proper place, time and vesture for hearing confessions, one or two more particular crimes in canon law, the question of jurisdiction and the much misused expression Ecclesia supplet, and, of course, what to do if the civil authority tries to compel a priest to break the seal.
Naw...Being led by the Holy Spirit to understand the things of God in the scriptures is not Gnosticism...
Seems you guys use Reason and Common Sense to reject the story of Jonah and the Whale and numerous other OT happenings...God didn't open the Red Sea...It was actually the very shallow Reed Sea that they walked across...But somehow the Pharaoh and his crew drowned in the shallow water...
These sound reasonable I guess...But that's the reasoning of yours that we reject...
Another one of your reasoning issues is that if we believe we have eternal security(OSAS), that means we can go on sinning with no repercussions...
We understand how that operates but you guys can't seem to get it...
I'll take God's wisdom taught in the scripture and revealed by the Holy Spirit and leave your Reason alone...
Do you mean conversion to your Catholic religion???
We Protestants don't have a continuous conversion...We are converted...It's a done deal...
In John 10:27-30, Jesus says:
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Fathers hand. 30 I and the Father are one.
So his sheep hear his voice and follow him and he GIVES them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish. So, the question is are you his sheep or aren't you? You don't wait until you die to find out if you are a sheep or you are a goat, but you hear his voice and follow him because he is the shepherd. And if you are his sheep, then you can't and won't be changed into a goat because he promised you will never perish and you will not be snatched out of his hand. That is but one of many passages of Scripture whereby we are assured of our eternal life with the Lord.
When he said many are called but few are chosen, I really believe he spoke about those who take this faith thing seriously. It IS a lifelong walk of discipleship and perseverance that is NOT for softies. God knows the heart and is never fooled by labels or masks. True faith TRULY changes people, that's why Jesus said we can know by our fruit.
And yet there are quite a number of us who relate experience with that *second* church. That has to give it some credibility since it's so widespread by people of such otherwise diverse backgrounds.
You are the odd one out even among practicing Catholics, and that is not a criticism or condemnation, just an observation.
Some of the Early Christians talking on this were
The Church has always been the community, the family in Christ. It's continuation through the centuries through strifes internal and external are solely due to the grace of the Holy Spirit
It is not purely about "community service" rather first service to God.
here's one: Sermons from Holy Trinity Lutheran Church, Holy Absolution
Confession and absolution is the ongoing work of Baptism. It is a return to the water, a sprinkling with the Word of Baptism that first brought us life and cleansing. So basic is confession to the Christian life, that the Large Catechism simply says: When I urge you to go to confession, I am simply urging you to be a Christian. Christians confess their sins and are forgiven. Unbelievers deny their sins and have no use for forgiveness.....As we've shown before, your group of "Proddy's" are NOT Protestants, but include only those who believe in conspiracy theories like that of 9/11 and aliens among us -- for the former, your group was slapped on the wrist sharply by JR, do remember.Confession is directed in three ways - to God, to the neighbor, and to the pastor. A Christian always confesses to God, and can always confess to God directly, as we do in the Lords Prayer and in our own personal prayers. That is your privilege as a baptized child of God. People sometimes use this privilege as a dodge and an excuse. I can confess directly to God; therefore, I dont need to confess before another. That isnt humility, but pride. The very words and deeds we are ashamed to admit before a fellow sinner, we were not ashamed to say and do in full view of the Lord of heaven and earth....
Though we may confess to God directly, He always deals with us through the external Word, the Word outside of ourselves - through Baptism, through the Lords Supper, through the preached Word. The person who boasts confidently, I can confess my sins to God directly, and therefore dont need the church, misses the basic point. Its not our confession, but Gods forgiveness that matters. And God always deals with us through the incarnation of Jesus, through earthy, creaturely means such as water, bread, wine, words, in this case sound waves that emanate from mouths and go into ear holes.
Christians also confess to their pastor. There are several good reasons for doing this. First, he is ordained to hear confession. Thats what we put him there for. It is one of the tasks laid on a pastor at his ordination. Second, he is equipped by practice and training to help others sharpen and deepen their confession and to square them to the Word of God. Third, he is bound by solemn vow to secrecy, something that a close friends is not. For a pastor to break the seal of confession is grounds for dismissal
Fourth, the pastor is a public, corporate person. He holds an office. The pastor does not speak for himself but for Christ and for the whole church. The pastor is a minister, a servant of the Word, a steward of Gods mysteries revealed in Christ. He is not there as superior, but as servant. He serves not from above but from below. He is there not to condemn but to forgive. He is under holy orders to forgive. A friend may forgive you simply to keep you as a friend. A family member may forgive you for no other reason than to keep peace in the family. Friends and family we have aplenty. Pastors, we have precious few. A pastor forgives by the divine order of the crucified, risen, and reigning Son of God, in his stead and by his command. He represents the person of Jesus, not his own person. Even if the pastor doesnt like you, or even if you dont like him, his forgiveness is Christs forgiveness, sure and certain, addressed to you. And thats really all that matters....
The scriptures refute you
John 20:21-23 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.Christ salvific work on the Cross saves us and provides us this reconciliation.
Mad Dawg is hardly odd man out among the Free Republic Catholics. None of us, that I know of, recognize the Catholic Church protestants describe here, as ours.
And by the way, which one of you or your protestant FRiends is going around adding “pedophilepatronsaint” to the John Paul II threads’ keywords? That appears to be meant to offend, and it does. What kind of people ARE you?
As shown by your group's posts over and over again, your posts have no clue about anything
It's like the time your post said that there would be a business and commercial complex set up on the archaeological dig site of Babylon
It would be good to read the Bible and some history before your group mouths its nonsense.
Oh we recognize the facts that Our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ is God. Your cult with it's tendency to flip over every hoax is the one dying out as it is based not on the solid ground that is provided by ground, but is rootless
As usual your posts posit points with no facts, no statements, no experience nothing, just hot air in the posts.
And when was the last mass you attended?
I mean conversion to Christ.
Wow! That’s a heck of a find!
The answer you’ll get: “my sources are mine alone. It’s secret. Top secret. I got it straight from the little green alien from Betelgeuse”
Actually, our Lutheran brothers are closer to us doctrinally than I thought
Well, some of them. I think there is now a wide variation among the various synods.
Maybe you two should discuss conversion.
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