Posted on 08/18/2011 7:18:16 AM PDT by marshmallow
So why is the seal of confession inviolable? Why does the seal bind under such a grave obligation that the Church excommunicates any confessor who directly violates it? (See: The seal of confession: some basics)
There are two principal reasons why the priest must preserve the seal: the virtue of justice and the virtue of religion. The motive of justice is evident because the penitent, by the very fact of entering the confessional, or asking the priest to hear his confession (we’ll deal with “reconciliation rooms” another day) rightly expects that the priest will observe the seal. This is a contract entered into by the fact of the priest agreeing to hear a person’s confession. To mandate the violation of the seal is in effect to prohibit the celebration of the sacrament of Penance.
Much more grave than the obligation of justice towards the penitent is the obligation of religion due to the sacrament. The Catholic Encyclopaedia gives a brief explanation of the virtue of religion which essentially summarises the teaching of St Thomas Aquinas. (Summa Theologica 2a 2ae q.81) Religion is a moral virtue by which we give to God what is His due; it is, as St Thomas says, a part of justice. In the case of the sacrament of Penance, instituted by Christ, Fr Felix Cappello explains things well [my translation]:
By the very fact that Christ permitted, nay ordered, that all baptised sinners should use the sacrament and consequently make a secret confession, he granted an absolutely inviolable right, transcending the order of natural justice, to use this remedy. Therefore the knowledge which was their own before confession, after the communication made in confession, remains their own for every non-sacramental use, and that by a power altogether sacred, which no contrary human law can strike out, since every human law is of an inferior order: whence this right cannot be taken away or overridden by any means, or any pretext, or any motive.
The penitent confesses his sins to God through the priest. If the seal were to be broken under some circumstances, it would put people off the sacrament and thereby prevent them from receiving the grace that they need in order to repent and amend their lives. It would also, and far more importantly, obstruct the will of God for sinners to make use of the sacrament of Penance and thereby enjoy eternal life. The grace of the sacrament is absolutely necessary for anyone who commits a mortal sin. To mandate the violation of the seal is in effect to prohibit the practice of the Catholic faith. Some secular commentators have spoken of the seal of confession as being somehow a right or privilege of the priest. That is a preposterous misrepresentation: it is a sacred and inviolable duty that the priest must fulfil for the sake of the penitent and for the sake of God's will to redeem sinners.
A possibly misleading phrase in this context is where theologians say that the penitent is confessing his sins as if to God "ut Deo." (You can easily imagine secularists deriding the idea that the priest makes himself to be a god etc.) In truth, the penitent is confessing his sins before God. The priest acts as the minister of Christ in a sacred trust which he may not violate for any cause - precisely because he is not in fact God. By virtue of the penitent’s confession ut Deo, the priest absolves the penitent and, if mortal sin is involved, thereby readmits him to Holy Communion.
There will be more to follow on the sacrament of confession. As I mentioned in my previous post, this series is not intended as a guide for making a devout confession but rather as an introduction to some canonical and theological questions regarding the sacrament which have become important recently. (For a leaflet on how to make a good confession, see my parish website.)
I have been told that the threat in Ireland to introduce a law compelling priests to violate the seal of confession has been withdrawn, at least for the time being. Nevertheless, I will continue with these posts because I think that the Irish proposal will be picked up by other secularists and may pose a problem for us. Further posts will look at the proper place, time and vesture for hearing confessions, one or two more particular crimes in canon law, the question of jurisdiction and the much misused expression “Ecclesia supplet”, and, of course, what to do if the civil authority tries to compel a priest to break the seal.
The last think I expect from the anti-Catholics in the Religion Forum is honest answers.
God is above being manipulated by ANYONE under the guise of ANY religion.
He’s not a good luck charm that we invoke to get what we want.
Are you implying that the ONLY communication between Paul and Timothy on the matter was limited to the Letters that were included in the Bible?
"Were the Corinthians able to read and understand the letters written to them, Theophilus understand Luke?"
Were all of the Corinthians saved?
One needs to understand the way God made a covenant with Abraham to understand. Abraham was present, but was put into a deep sleep during the covenant process, allowing God to make the covenant himself and with no commitment on Abraham's part. Abraham can’t take credit for “accepting” the covenant any more then we can “take credit” for accepting salvation.
Very well said.
It is all very true and exactly what I think.
Without God drawing us in the first place, there would be no ability to respond.
God works in us to will and to do according to His good pleasure.
“I wonder what is intended by these conversations and this sort of participation.”
I don’t really “wonder”. I get the distinct impression that the purpose IS to mock Catholicism—and by way of association—those of us who are Catholic; to “educate” us about our fallibility, to inform us of the “accursed gospel”, to caution us of being “under the curse of the law”, to assume that we are without true faith, without true hope and without true redemption.
It’s a cyber-form of the style of Mission to Catholics people who would stand outside our parish church after Mass to tell us that we were “lost”.
That’s what I have read in the negative posts made here to Catholics about Catholicism.
Which makes it all seem that the Gospel is more against something than it is for something.
In a certain sense, I can say that I’m grateful that I have been a FReeper, and a mostly-lurker. After I have read so many negative posts about Catholicism, I have become aware— much more aware—that the negative attitudes and posts about all things Catholic are not the authentic picture of today’s active Catholic parish, nor of the spiritual life of today’s authentic, practicing Catholic.
Absorbing all this, and giving serious consideration to it has done a lot to strengthen my Catholic faith because it has caused me to study more, to reflect more and to pray more. And I’ve desired to reflect and pray more than to study, because—as St. Paul tells us-—knowledge passes away, but there remains faith, hope and love and the greatest of these is love. To love God and one’s neighbor is the fulfillment of the Law.
God is above being manipulated by ANYONE under the guise of ANY religion.
He’s not a good luck charm that we invoke to get what we want.
ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
I’m reminded of Kenneth Hagin’s experience that he nor his disciples talked about much.
There was a faithful spinster who had heart trouble. She was faithful in Scripture and believed and prayed and applied accordingly . . . right down the line as Hagin believed.
And she still died.
It troubled Hagin a lot. And, he asked God about it with some earnestness.
Finally, God essentially told him it was none of his business and to NEVER bring it up again.
God is above being manipulated by ANYONE under the guise of ANY religion.
He’s not a good luck charm that we invoke to get what we want.
ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
That is often the reaction most Protestants have when they discover that the one whom they have tried to elevate above Jesus is discovered to be a humble Catholic priests. A Catholic priest? Yes, he was also a bishop. This was made known to us in his letters to Timothy, in which he said:
"I remind you to rekindle the gift of God that is within you through the laying on of my hands; for God did not give us a spirit of timidity but a spirit of power and love and self-control. Do not be ashamed then of testifying to our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel in the power of God, who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not in virtue of our works but in virtue of his own purpose and the grace which he gave us in Christ Jesus ages ago, and now has manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher, and therefore I suffer as I do. But I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am sure that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me - 2 Tim. 1:6-12
And in Romans:
15 But I have written very boldly to you on some points so as to remind you again, because of the grace that was given me from God, 16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. - Romans 15:15-16
Do have any other prophetic messages for us??
You figure Mary or one of those Saints will pass along the prayers to God???
What's up with telling me what I believe?
But then I remember being on the other side. I remember the sense of revulsion I had at most Marian devotional stuff, even as I developed my theology of Mary. And likewise with nearly all things Catholic, even while I was loving Augustine and Aquinas and head over heels over Dante. The revulsion was strong.
And then I think metmom's history is undeniable. And in the right kind of Catholic ghetto it would be easy to be fall into thinking that what one experienced was all there was to it.
And these impressions can be virutally indelible. I have mentioned my friend form the hills of Arkansas who is virtually proo0f against all forms of Christianity because of the spousal and child abuse she saw justified by the Christians (so-called) up in her particular hollow in the hills. "This kind can only be driven out by prayer and fasting."
Other Catholics must cringe when you get on the soapbox...
Likely unintentionally, it seems you are sometimes trying to Protestantize the Catholic religion...
"Did Timothy understand the letters written to him by Paul?"No, My point is that Paul wrote letters that COULD be understood by readers. Scripture is not written in riddles that only a magesterium can decipher. He assumed Timothy could understand the message and Luke assumed that Theophilus could understand the book of Luke.Are you implying that the ONLY communication between Paul and Timothy on the matter was limited to the Letters that were included in the Bible?
Is it really that difficult to read and understand?
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
Luke 8:12 The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
John 3:16"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 26:28 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" 29Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."
John 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Acts 10:43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
Acts 11:17 If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?"
Acts 13:39 and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.
Acts 16:31 And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Romans 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
"Peter was married."I doubt Peter was celibate.Yes, we learned in Matthew that Peter was married, but only know of the existence of his mother in law from the Gospel. This suggests that his wife may have already been dead by the time Jesus began His ministry. Do you doubt that Peter was celibate?
1 Cor 9:5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and CEPHAS?
If you could get one of them to answer the question honestly, I'd bet that what keeps Catholics from sin if fear...Bearing in mind of course that there isn't much that Catholics do that they consider to be sin...
Can anyone imagine how the Catholics would react if one could convince them that lying, gambling, getting drunk, using God's name in vain, acting like a heathen in general were actually sins???
That's not to suggest that Protestants don't sin because we all do...
So where's the difference???
So can I as a Christian kill someone and still go to heaven??? Yes...Can I commit adultery and still go to heaven??? Yes...Just the same as I can steal a pencil and go to heaven...
So how does that work??? Although I can kill someone, I DON'T WANT TO...God has put it into my heart to please Him...That's the difference...
Catholic obviously don't know that...Just as God puts it into my heart to not get soused, not to use his name in vain, and all other sin...I am free to do anything I want...And I do...But I want to please God along the way so I try to stay away from things that are not pleasing to Him...They don't get it...
Would you say it's Faith and Works?LOL ;)Only if I wanted to get strung up! :-)
Well sure...And it suggests that Peter went to the Community College part time and that he drove a red Porsche...
It also suggests that Peter had 8 kids and probably a bunch of grandkids...But it suggests that they all died while Peter and the family got caught in that snowstorm in the Alps...The only survivors were Peter and his mother in law...
And it suggests that Peter's mother in law had an immaculate conception since it doesn't mention Peter's father in law...
Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
I see you added a little non biblical something to your scripture quote...Nice try but no cigar...
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