Posted on 07/17/2011 9:33:31 PM PDT by Cvengr
Children also have not reached the age of accountability and do not understand what the Gospel message is about. I agree that truth from the mouth of babes is accurate.
Children are also very scarred in their thinking and can be some of the most arrogant people around. (Just take a kid’s favorite toy away from them and give it to their fellow kid and watch what happens,...don’t do it,...it simply encourages them to sin.)
In regards to adding to faith,... we always are to grow in faith, by remaining in fellowship, studying His Word and allowing God the Holy Spirit to grow that faith in us, but you are quite correct, anything added to faith alone in Christ alone by the believer voids the efficacious nature of that faith for use by God the Holy Spirit.
It’s like saying God’s Plan isn’t adequate,...we need to help him out so it will work. That simply leads the believer out of fellowship.
I’ve found that those preoccupied with works in their association with salvation, haven’t begun to mature in Christ.
Each of us is made uniquely and God has a Plan for each of us. As we grow in the Lord, study Scripture, intake the Word and God the Holy Spirit continues to grow us spiritually and in our soul, we go through experience testing. As we continue to persevere, and mature in Him, we sometimes begin to see where He has placed us to be at the right place and right time to perform works He has prepared us to perform.
Those are the works I understand which also justify us, but that is after initial saving faith, way after we were babes in Christ.
Great point. They are mirrors of our depravity. As we age we become more sophisticated in hiding our greed and self-centered thinking and living.
In regards to adding to faith,... we always are to grow in faith, by remaining in fellowship, studying His Word and allowing God the Holy Spirit to grow that faith in us,...
Amen, but I think this is more sanctification. We are maturing and being led by the Holy Spirit. Our desires are changing. The things we find joy in are changing. However, these are all beautiful affects of something that came before. The trigger being the unconditional faith in Jesus Christ.
It’s like saying God’s Plan isn’t adequate,...we need to help him out so it will work. That simply leads the believer out of fellowship.
Where we may, or may not, differ is I think the person caught in this thinking is not yet saved.
I will disagree with you about this. The works we perform after being justified do not save us. Our justification is a one time event.
Eph. 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
I hope you don't mind if I pinged some others to this topic.
IMHO, the vast majority of believers never advance beyond being babes in Christ, preoccupied by worldly things, and sliding into one counterfeit substitute for the Christian walk or another. We frequently confuse ‘good’ with the Christian walk, instead of placing faith in Christ in all things, never ceasing in prayer. I know I’m guilty of that frequently.
I agree that there are a lot of folks who fit that definition. I've sure had my share of mistakes. However, I wonder how many are really saved. Over time you will see fruits of the Spirit in a believer. Over time you will see a believer have a desire to read Scripture and their walk with the Lord will become more intimate.
We started out looking at those who think their salvation is contingent on their works. However, we can look at those that responded to an altar call or prayed the sinners prayer and then over time no change is evident in their walk and question whether they really have been justified or not. I think works may reflect the inner change, but we can't forget the thief on the Cross. He was saved (justified) and all he did was believe.
Good point.
Gal 2:16
(16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
And again
Rom 3:22-26
(22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
(24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
(25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Are you not confusing sanctification with justification? Justification being a sole act of God and sanctification being a cooperative effort.
Are you not confusing sanctification with justification? Justification being a sole act of God and sanctification being a cooperative effort.
“I think it is as simple as just “believing in Christ”. Repentance and regeneration follow real faith. The fallen angels “know” who Jesus Christ is, but they don’t believe in Him unconditionally.”
Agreed on the last sentence, which, if you read my posts is what Boatbums and I discussed and why I chose to break that phrase down into a definition. As for repentance and regeneration, they do not FOLLOW saving faith but happen at the same time and are an integral part of saving faith. One cannot know Christ unless one is regenerated; and repentance is necessary for salvation as well.
“The person who adds to their faith, even with the best of intentions, is following a different gospel.”
If they are trusting in that OTHER to save them (a system of works, charity, membership in a specific church, sacraments, confessions, walking the aisle without saving faith, etc...), I would agree, but if they trust Christ but sometimes falter and feel that they should surely DO something themselves (as, if we are honest, all of us have wondered or felt at some time for we are all prone to doubt on occasion)....I would consider that while their theology is not “spot on” they are still saved. I think in the latter case is an issue of maturity and growth as others have said, rather than a clear-cut case of not being saved (as the former example would be).
“It is not my job to judge another’s heart since only God can truly see it.”
Very true, but we are called to be “fruit inspectors” if you will... :))
This is where so many get confused with the concept of justification. They misinterpret “Faith without works is dead” which is an indicator of the type of faith one must have to be saved — not an indicator that works will earn one salvation. As far as “working out your salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who works in you” — that is a reference to sanctification because only a justified person possesses Christ through the Holy Spirit. Sanctification is a process, not justification which occurs once. The reality from God’s perspective (being outside Time) is that we have been saved, we are being saved and we will be saved — for all times are ever present to Him. From our perspective it occurs once.
Just some thoughts.... Thanks for listening! :))
Amen! Well said, thanks.
That is my conclusion as well, though reluctantly. All I can do, besides praying and speaking the truth whenever I get the chance, is to leave it in God's hands. He is speaking to hearts in the way only he can and he will not force anyone to trust in him and be saved. I believe he is ALL good, holy, and righteous and that he desires everyone to come to the knowledge of the truth. I trust him to do what is right.
What is the source?
It sounds like it came from an R.B. Thieme work.
Disregard my last post, I didn’t see that it had R.B. Thieme posted at the top.
Posts 37 and 38 are indicative of a positive response to spiritual communication from God the Holy Spirit. Nice to be in the walk, isn’t it?
I think I would frame the query slightly differently. Would a person be saved only by believing he must perform works with faith to gain salvation?
No.
Galatians and James though are both True. We agree?
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