Posted on 07/08/2011 1:44:03 PM PDT by Colofornian
...David Hyrum Smith...youngest son of...LDS prophet, Joseph Smith...returned to a mission to Utah...Reorganized church prophet, Joseph Smith III, who the letter was addressed to, must have regretted extending the call, writes Valerie Tippetts Avery, author of “From Mission to Madness: Last Son of the Mormon Prophet...” To young David...the mission...served to convince himself...that he had spent years angrily refuting — that his father...preached and practiced polygamy.
...David...Smith took his...skepticism...further, arguing against...dogma that man can only seek important further knowledge from a selected prophet. This doubt struck at a key doctrine of both churches. He wrote: “If faith unto salvation was an eternal principle and true, it could be discovered and demonstrated so as to be of general benefit as the law of gravitation or the rules of mathematics. But as it comes to us it makes us subservient to our falable (sic) fellow Man for eternal life, a most absurd proposition. But you again might speak God has revealed himself. But here again is an absurdity our fellow man brings us a revelation, and we are only guided by our faith in him. We do not know he has had this revelation and eternal salvation depends upon our faith in our fellow man and his revelation. Unjust and absurd.”
...David Smith...pointed out the inconsistency of ascribing belief based on one man’s claim of divine prophecy. For every Joseph Smith, he told his brother, there were Brigham Young, “Spiritualists” and Strangites” (an offshoot of Mormonism).
Young Smith’s ideas could be dismissed as heresy...by rigid believers...Any follower of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints…should acknowledge... inconsistencies demanded…which are:
• ...belief is required without presentable evidence...
• ...for every claim of a Joseph Smith or a Thomas Monson, there are thousands of similar claims from prophets with hundreds of millions of adherents...
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.standard.net ...
Reprint the lies, and not your strawmne; if you please, and I'll fix them if proven wrong.
Again: show any lies you find.
No pun at all zippy. Just a simple statement of fact about Mormons failure with rightly dividing the Scriptures.
Don’t forget your Nicene Creed. Pick and choose yer Bible books.
Go for it. Eating anti Mormons for lunch and trolling them are only part of my divine given talents. Yum Elsie!
Well lets see. Joseph Smith was a wife abuser.
Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
Mormons aren’t Christian.
Mormons don’t believe the Bible.
Mormons follow blindly what their leaders say.
Book of Mormon is a fraud.
Lets see..................
Book of Abraham was ripped off from the Egyptian Book of the Dead
Mormons don’t believe the Bible.
The Mormon Jesus is different than the “Christian” Jesus? Hmmm... Last time I checked my KJV, NIV NKJV, it was the same Jesus that I worship.
LDS don’t think for themselves.
We’re going to hell(Who made you God?)
We have deceived the world.
Brigham Young was a tyrant.
and.....Porter Rockwell was sober.
I gotta go.
Pick and choose which MORMON scriptures you will or will not obey.
Elsie is meat.
MORMONs are not supposed to EAT meat in warm weather or times of abundance; so I figger I'm safe 'til fall at least.
YOU ain't one of them JACK mormons; are you?
You must not be MORMON. The JST is the ONLY 'correct' one; and you guys don't even consider it to be SCRIPTURE!!
How wierd is THAT!!??
You must not be MORMON. The JST is the ONLY 'correct' one; and you guys don't even consider it to be SCRIPTURE!!
How weird is THAT!!??
Interesting. Last time I looked, there was nothing in the Book of Mormon about bean sprouts and bok choy. Is my copy out of date?
YOU ain't one of them JACK mormons; are you?
The false bravado leads me to think maybe more of a JILL mormon.
May be he KNOWS what parts are translated correctly.
Yo!
Words such as "false" "error" "wrong" do not attribute motive.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
BTW, welcome to the Religion Forum. You’ve already run afoul of the Religion Moderator. You’ll find the Moderator reasonably fair. This is a Protestant Christian site so it is absurd to expect neutrality.
That said, there isn’t a search for truth here. What happens is people, likely kind and gentle in their corporeal lives, bring their ‘truth’ here and then beat each other to death with it.
It gets old quickly and I’ve asked not to be pinged to this Forum, but in their zeal to save souls they sometimes lose sight of the bloodsport nature of their missionary approach. Much of it is to rationalize their own spiritual choices with the balance of posters as religious sociopaths. Good luck and DON’T MAKE IT PERSONAL (as if fundamental beliefs aren’t personal enough).
If you’re really interested in understanding the psychology behind anti-Mormons you might enjoy this site: http://www.barna.org/
George Barna, though nominally Evangelical, is a thoughtful guy. He’s done some great research into why churches and belief systems succeed and fail. He’s also done some in depth analysis of different types of faith.
This one is excellent: http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Faith-Tribes-Believe-Matter/dp/1414324049
It analyzes seven major faiths including atheism/agnosticism. Mormons are also included. The group of Christians you’re dealing with on this and similar threads are called ‘captive Christians’. They view themselves as slaves to Christ. They are fervent and immovable, that is they have the ‘truth’ and there is no adding or subtracting from it.
This clouds their judgment and lowers their objectivity. Although many LDS find these threads hostile, linguistically violent and definitively unloving, this is how they express love. It can seem juvenile and cruel, but that’s not how they view it.
There’s a lot of heat, but little light. One good thing about anti-Mormon threads is they provide Protestants and Catholics some common ground which is a nice time out and relief from their normal threads in which they work vigorously to destroy each other.
If facts were the way to faith, why doesn’t God simply appear to each of us, expressing the ‘fact’ that he exists and we are to worship him?
It would simplify the process and certainly shorten these threads.
Instead, God relies on faith. If God views faith as superior to facts, shouldn’t we?
But, they make great families. That is the fruit of Mormon doctrine. Their doctrine directs one toward all the saving any Evangelical needs.
Mormon doctrine starts with faith in Jesus Christ as God and Savior. You might not like that, but if believing in the One God has sent gets you to Heaven, then Mormons will be there.
2/3s of the Bible is the OT. The OT is all about works, ask any Jew.
No Mormon would disagree with anything in your post excepting faith alone. The NT points out clearly that we have work to do. Your definition of Heaven as a single place is what’s making your theology faulty.
Here’s Irenaeus on the Christian afterlife: ‘there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundred-fold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold: for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second will dwell in paradise, the last will inhabit the city; and that was on this account the Lord declared, “In My Father’s house are many mansions.” Book V:36:1 (Against Heresies)
If Irenaeus were to stand up at a Mormon meetinghouse and spout that they’d think he were Bishop.
...First President (sic) [Counselor] Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's dad, highlighted this for us:
"This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life" (Conference Report, April, 1961, p. 119)]
I'm accepting this as a true statement as you didn't provide any link and I cannot find one on any of the anti-Mormon sites this quote appears on. Sourcing is a real problem.
But, when an LDS reads Church it equals Jesus Christ. They believe that their church is the One True Church. Hence the Church is synonymous with Jesus Christ. That is likely what is causing your misunderstanding.
As for an insight by David Smith, there isn't one. Every book of the Bible comes by way of prophets. Either you accept them or you don't.
The Christian expectation is that:
1. There will be prophets.
2. Some will be false.
3. God will find a way to reveal the true ones.
4. True prophets are attacked and marginalized and often martyred, it's the Devil's world after all.
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