Sorry dude, I still gotta call you on this one. Your research is too detailed on the other topics, you MUST know that bishops do not get paid, even in the 80s. (Can’t speak to the 30s and before, but based on the appalling state of church finances at that time, I bet not then either). I have too much direct contact with this topic, so either you are trying to distort the truth intentionally on this point, or all of your research is suspect.
Well I suppose it depends on how you define ‘paid’. Stipends and percentages of tithing (which was very common) are means of payment as are the moneys the GA’s get for these fake board seats they hold on LDS companies (average one million per year per apostle).
Colo knows his stuff and his research is always spot on.
You may want to check out the book “The Mormon Corporate Empire” for more detailed info and sources however.
I already said (my last post) that they don't (any longer) get paid other than possibly reimbursements for travel expenses.
(Can’t speak to the 30s and before, but based on the appalling state of church finances at that time, I bet not then either).
(If you're betting, based upon the sure knowledge I have that at least stake clerks were getting stipends as of 1934, guess what? You'd lose...)
How do I know that stake clerks were getting stipends as of 1934?
#1 Elder Boyd K. Packer gave a devotional address 10/15/06 @ the Marriott Center where he mentioned "Brother Kimball" having served as a "stake clerk" for 19 years. Packer said, "In those days the stake clerk received a small stipend..."
#2 In that message Packer specifically says that Kimball served dual roles for a time -- both as stake clerk and as second counselor -- and that Ballard made him choose between one or the other. Kimball chose the paid-stipend position, the stake clerk. Packer said in that message: A sister, who knew him well, wrote and said, "Spencer, I'm surprised at you--to take a calling just because there is money involved." Then she said, "If you don't change your attitude, within two months, you'll apostatize from the Church."
#3 I checked Kimball's bio of both when he was a stake clerk -- and that covered 1918-1938 -- but was even more specific as it said he was second counselor from 1924-1934 -- and it was 1934 when he chose stake clerk and was relieved of his second counselor role. Source:http://lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/controllers/potcController.jsp?leader=12&topic=events
See...how does it feel to make claims about church leaders & stipends & be wrong on that despite all that supposed "inside" knowledge you have?
When I gave you that 10% tithing figure going to bishops re: my last post, I don't know when bishops stopped receiving that. It happened sometime in the 20th century...I've said I don't know when it stopped -- and apparently you don't seem to know, either. If you find out, let me know.
I found one purely anecdotal source How many Church Leaders receive a 'stipend'...? that claims the 70 Presiding Bishoprics are part of the 854 overall church leaders who receive a living allowance/stipend/salary (whatever game-playing people want to call it).
Do you know for certain that these 70 Presiding Bishoprics don't receive funds from the Lds church today? All the sources I've seen include them as well as Mission Presidents as ones STILL receiving funds from the Lds church hierarchy -- in addition to receiving a house.
As for the $40,000 figure I cited, I cannot find my original notes on details. So I simply did further research on any similar $40,000 figures.
What I came up with did not apply to Lds bishops' stipends -- but rather a second-tier Lds Seventy. The year? Not 1993 as my post says; but 1983.
The Source? The Wall Street Journal, Nov. 9, 1983.
Here's an Lds discussion on salaries/stipends of Lds General Authorities that took place in 2007: Are GAs paid salaries or stipends?
According to an Lds poster of post #44 @ bycommonconsent.com: The Wall Street Journal article in question (“Leaders of Mormonism Double as Overseers of a Financial Empire”) reported that Paul H. Dunn’s “church salary is $40,000 a year.” This statement is made in the course of a discussion about Dunn’s connections to Afco Enterprises, a real estate venture which collapsed in 1982. Dunn resigned from the board of directors in 1978, but he apparently maintained ties to the company until 1982. The reporter cites court records in a civil suit involving Afco, so that may be his source for the salary figure. (Dunn gave a deposition in the case.)
Of course, Paul Dunn was a disgraced Lds General Authority who told complete fabrications about so-called war years and a pure fantasy Major League career.
Technocrat, what also interests me is that if you claim to be so "close" to having financial knowledge of the goings-on re: the Lds church -- since you've challenged the veracity of my claims, why haven't you likewise challenged the veracity of MonkeyFace's claims she made on post #19? She said: Ninety-nine percent of the LDS churches leaders, in any capacity, are independently wealthy. They have to be: The LDS church does NOT pay them a salary.
Is that true that Lds leaders are not paid?
Answer: No. It's blatantly false -- and that includes whatever games people want to play about how to label those funds. And you of all posters should know that, right? We both know that the First Presidency, both quorums of the Lds general authorities, and mission presidents all receive funds from the Lds church, right? And we both know that also at one time included Lds bishops & stake clerks, right?
The Lds poster "California Condor" @ commonconsent.com (Are GAs paid salaries or stipends? -- post #25) posted the following [GA = General Authority]:
Here’s what I found on the Internet:
GA Class of 2007: Year-end bonus 35K, no special bonus
GA Class of 2006: Year end 35K, special 10K
GA Class of 2005: Year end 40K, special 15K
GA Class of 2004: Year end 45K, special 20K
GA Class of 2003: Year end 50K, special 30K
GA Class of 2002: Year end 55K, special 40K
GA Class of 2001: Year end 60K, special 50K
GA Class of 2000: same as 2001
These bonuses are on top of GA salaries beginning at $160,000 for first-years, $170,000 for second-years, $185,000 for third-years, $210,000 for fourth-years and so on and so forth.
Those are pretty significant numbers, would you not say?
And before you launch into the Lds apologetic of false distinctions "living arrangement reimbursements" vs. "salaries" take note of the following comments:
Other Lds posters' comments from bycommonconsent.com were also of interest:
* RonanJH wrote: "2. For the life of me I cannot see any qualitative difference between using stipend/salary/allowance in this case. 3. Given that we do pay our full-time officials, I think our rants against other churches who also pay their full-time ministers, are lame. (Post #15)
* Poster "we" wrote :The 1040s of GA’s have W-2s stapled to them just like other employees. They report amounts paid as “Wages, tips, other compensation” to employees. Dress it up any way you want. In the context of broad US culture that is the way it is and I see no need for perfume. (Post #194)
Finally, for anybody who wants to see how one talk show handled this topic, here's an 8-minute YouTube clip: No Paid Clergy?