I wonder what Joe's voice was like??
Posted on 06/30/2011 12:33:48 PM PDT by Colofornian
...The church's assets are thought to be worth more than $30 billion.
...The church reportedly receives more than $5 billion in tithes every year.
The church also has substantial real estate and for-profit business investments, managed by Deseret Management Corp. The company is one of the largest owners of farm and ranch land in the U.S. It owns the country's largest nut producer, AgReserves, Inc., the 14th largest radio chain, Bonneville International Corp...
Economic entrepreneurialism is...part of Mormon doctrine — 88 of...112 revelations received by... founder Joseph Smith deal with fiscal matters.
SNIP
The Twilight saga is actually about the Mormon belief in eternal marriage.
The Twilight series, by Mormon author Stephanie Meyers, is an allegory for the Mormon concept of "celestial marriage" - the belief that a couple that is "sealed" in a Mormon temple will stay bound together forever...
Edward and Bella's bond is sealed when Edward bites Bella. As with a Mormon marriage, there's no turning back for Bella, who is transformed into a vampire for eternity.
SNIP
The Mormon church thinks polygamy might be okay in the afterlife.
...(the official Mormon church)...still believes...the divine principle of plural marriage may apply in heaven. In the case of death or divorce, Mormon men can be sealed to another wife and all of their celestial marriages will be honored in eternity.
The LDS...tried to distance itself from...40,000 fundamentalist Mormons who still practice polygamy...
SNIP
Mormons wear special undergarments called a "temple garment"...designed to give "protection against temptation and evil."
Many Mormons believe the underwear provides spiritual protection.
SNIP
Mormons believe that when Jesus returns, he's coming to the U.S.
Mormons believe...all the...Christian churches fell into apostasy...
...Jesus will personally return to reign over a paradisaical Kingdom on earth. His headquarters will be at the...temple in Jackson County, Missouri...
(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...
It's not US you have to please; but the MORMON god:
12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.
Authentic MORMON scripture and teachings and writings are FLAME??
OK then...
The
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 71
Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, December 1, 1831. HC 1: 238–239. The Prophet had continued to translate the Bible with Sidney Rigdon as his scribe until this revelation was received, at which time it was temporarily laid aside so as to enable them to fulfill the instruction given herein. The brethren were to go forth to preach in order to allay the unfriendly feelings that had developed against the Church as a result of the publication of some newspaper articles by Ezra Booth, who had apostatized.
1–4, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon are sent forth to proclaim the gospel; 5–11, Enemies of the saints shall be confounded.
1 Behold, thus saith the Lord unto you my servants Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon, that the time has verily come that it is necessary and expedient in me that you should open your mouths in proclaiming my gospel, the things of the kingdom, expounding the mysteries thereof out of the scriptures, according to that portion of Spirit and power which shall be given unto you, even as I will.
2 Verily I say unto you, proclaim unto the world in the regions round about, and in the church also, for the space of a season, even until it shall be made known unto you.
3 Verily this is a mission for a season, which I give unto you.
4 Wherefore, labor ye in my vineyard. Call upon the inhabitants of the earth, and bear record, and prepare the way for the commandments and revelations which are to come.
5 Now, behold this is wisdom; whoso readeth, let him understand and receive also;
6 For unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly, even power.
7 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest.
8 Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord.
9 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you—there is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper;
10 And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in mine own due time.
11 Wherefore, keep my commandments; they are true and faithful. Even so. Amen.
| The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy. |
I wonder what Joe's voice was like??
Where is that audio of the guy threatening folks with his PRIESTHOOD powers?
That's a HOOT!
But instead of presenting a sound rebuttal (it would be a first, you could be famous) you prefer Elmer Fudd and dill hole insults...
Well that is one approach...
An actual defense and plausible explanation of all the errors and other issues with the LDS would have been far more interesting...
Alas that shall never come, it resides in the world of snip hunts and Bigfoot..
“Yes, and the Holy Spirit confirmed to me the truthfulness of my church. “
Actually, you do not know it was not a deceitful demon that confirmed the “truthfulness” of the religion.
All a mormon has is feelings, but can only speculate as to the source of those feelings.
So, you have demonic confirmation.
“I will not be responding to any of you. So flame away dilholes!”
I have noted over the years that mormons in general, and apparently you specifically, never respond
with any:
...FACTS
...EVIDENCE
...LOGICAL ARGUMENT
The reflexive mormon reaction is to make ad hominem attacks - most commonly calling others liars
or foul names. You have done exactly this, since you arrived on this thread.
The one thing mormons cannot do is provide facts, evidence or logical argument. This brings us
full circle back to the first point. Mormonism is a house of cards, resting on subjective feelings
and nothing else to support its wild claims... and a mormon cannot know that those burning sensations
didn’t come from Mexican food or demons.
Since you say you won’t respond, perhaps you could stew over this. If you locate a fact, piece of
evidence, or logical argument, I’d love to talk more.
best to you,
ampu
If you locate a fact, piece of evidence, or logical argument, I’d love to talk more.
http://bountifultravel.com/?gclid=CI_c2Nn98akCFcbBKgodqwmDbA
http://www.nps.gov/mwac/libi/index.html
Just THINK of all the goodies that await excavation of Hill Cumorah!
230,000 bodies, complete with weapons and other artifacts, just left to molder on the ground...
The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battles—Mormon hides the sacred records in the hill Cumorah—The Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyed—Hundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. About A.D. 385.
1 And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites.
2 And I, Mormon, wrote an epistle unto the king of the Lamanites, and desired of him that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle.
3 And it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites did grant unto me the thing which I desired.
4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.
5 And *when three hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.
6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.
7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.
8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers.
9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war.
10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.
11And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.
12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.
13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.
14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.
15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen; and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.
16 And my soul was rent with anguish, because of the slain of my people, and I cried:
17 O ye fair ones, how could ye have departed from the ways of the Lord! O ye fair ones, how could ye have rejected that Jesus, who stood with open arms to receive you!
18 Behold, if ye had not done this, ye would not have fallen. But behold, ye are fallen, and I mourn your loss.
19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen!
20 But behold, ye are gone, and my sorrows cannot bring your return.
21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.
22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy.
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Show me factual evidence Jesus resurrected and was taken to Heaven. Show me factual evidence angels appeared and said this to the Apostles.
This is about YOU. YOU provide the “FACTS, EVIDENCE, LOGICAL ARGUMENT”
“Show me factual evidence Jesus resurrected and was taken to Heaven. Show me factual evidence angels appeared and said this to the Apostles.”
Acts 1:11 - a concurrent, written account, after extensive research, in the timeframe of witnesses (any of whom could have said it didn’t happen that way). Acceptable as a reliable account in any court.
Please contrast that with any of the wild claims of mormonism???????
I disagree with your last comment. It is not about me. It is about the historical record of Jesus Christ, witnessed by thousands, which are facts.
Go to the Holy Land, turn over a spade of earth and what you find supports the Biblical record.
Mormonism, however, makes wild claims about early America for which there is not evidence or facts. You have a made up book, supported by feelings, with no fossils, no metal objects, no graveyards that contain hundreds of thousands of skeletons, no cities, no remaining foundations, etc.
Turn over a spade of dirt here and you have dirt.
You simply have wild claims and feelings Ben. You testify that your feelings confirm the wild claims. Yet you don’t even know that your feelings are not demonic in origin.
Now, there is nothing wrong with coming right out and saying, “I’m a proud mormonic follower! I believe the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith is a horndog and a prophet! I have absolutely no facts, evidence or logic, but I feel it in my bones, my bosoms and my hindquarters! And I don’t care! I have my feelings!”
But of course, you mistake your feelings for facts, evidence or logic and are left with an attack on others to cover it up.
best,
ampu
Have you spoken to these “thousands of witnesses?” Did they all write accounts of seeing Jesus Christ resurrected?
Yes, there is dirt in Jerusalem. Yes, the cities in the bible are accounted for...but that does not mean Christ actually walked on water. You can’t PROVE that he did. You go by faith. You believe it. There are no facts substantiate it.
I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross and was resurrected. I have no empirical evidence. Nor do you.
I also believe Joseph Smith saw Jesus Christ as a resurrected being just like the Twelve Apostles did.
Faith is faith my dear brother. Just as the original Greeks and Romans believed in their Gods, so do we believe in ours. I will never convince you of my faith and you won’t ever convince me my faith is wrong and yours is correct.
Good day to you sir and carry on fighting the good fight against liberalism and tyranny this administration had inflicted upon us all.
Ben
Ben,
First, I will point out your failing to provide a SINGLE:
... fact,
... shred of evidence
... ANY logical argument
... What you have affirmed indirectly, is that as a mormon, you have feelings that are likely demonic in origin.
That’s it.
... So it is no wonder that you don’t want to talk about anything OBJECTIVE!
... Here is a response to your failed points...
“Have you spoken to these “thousands of witnesses?” Did they all write accounts of seeing Jesus Christ resurrected?
... No need to do so. And if I did speak to them, you would come up with another excuse, I suspect. It is enough that
courts routinely accept testimony from firsthand witnesses and contemporaneous accounts. There were thousands of
witnesses to Christ’s miracles and to his death.
... Please show me the “mormon equivalent”.
... There are tens of thousands of pieces of archeological evidence that support the scriptures - and in the news currently,
Israel is opening up the foundations of the FIRST TEMPLE for tours - all of which objectively support the Biblical account.
... Please show me the “mormon equivalent” of Early Mormon history.
... YOU CANNOT.
“Yes, there is dirt in Jerusalem. Yes, the cities in the bible are accounted for...but that does not mean Christ actually walked on water. You can’t PROVE that he did. You go by faith. You believe it. There are no facts substantiate it.”
... I don’t have to go by faith. I have the historical account. The Scriptures are a historical account, as verified many times by archeology.
... Mormon equivalent? Non-existent! Pffft.
“I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross and was resurrected. I have no empirical evidence. Nor do you.”
... The Jesus Christ of mormonism is not the Jesus Christ of Christianity. At least you admit you have no empirical evidence! Please don’t speak for Christians.
“I also believe Joseph Smith saw Jesus Christ as a resurrected being just like the Twelve Apostles did.”
... And you believe this based on what character quality of Joseph Smith???
... Was it his treasure-hunting-scamming prowess?
... Was it his adulterous taking of other men’s wives?
... Was it his violation of his wedding vows to Emma?
... Was it his destruction of the private property of others?
... Or was it just your apparently demonic feelings?
... or was it the non-existent factual support for the wild claims of mormonism?
“Faith is faith my dear brother.”
... Faith is only as good as the object of faith Ben. Your object doesn’t exist. Mormon faith is in their feelings alone. They stand up in testimony meetings to testify to exactly that.
“Just as the original Greeks and Romans believed in their Gods, so do we believe in ours.”
... First true statement I’ve seen from you! Greeks and Romans had many gods, mormons have many gods. Christians have ONE God.
“I will never convince you of my faith and you won’t ever convince me my faith is wrong and yours is correct.”
... It is a shame, because the Christ of the Bible offers salvation apart from works or mormon “worthiness”. I can assure you that mormonism is a cult based on feelings.
...So that’s it.
... You had a chance to tell us a single fact, piece of evidence or logical argument to support the wild claims of mormonism and you changed the subject!
... After calling names, using filthy terms, that’s what it comes down to - a retreat to your feelings as a mormon.
...No big surprise there. That is the Sine qua non of mormonism: feelings. And at the end of the day, you don’t even know the source of your feelings.
...I wish better for you and every mormon who is stuck in the cult.
best,
ampu
Ha!!! I can imagine you hopping up and down all over your house a la Rumpelstiltskin.
Thousands did not see Christ go into Heaven. Just because the bible says it happened, you must still take it on faith. You have to believe something you didn’t see yourself.
I can prove 2+2=4 and 100% of all sane people accept it as a mathematical and scientific certainty.
What percentage of the world would accept that Christ resurrected and went into Heaven after reading the bible? It can’t be proved. It is not a scientific certainty. One must have faith.
I am glad you do as I do have faith in the resurrected Christ.
Now calm down.
Ben
“Ha!!! I can imagine you hopping up and down all over your house a la Rumpelstiltskin.”
... and you would be wrong. In my experience, mormons envision things vividly because
they have no facts, evidence or logical argument to support their wild claims. Here we’ve
exchanged a number posts and you have yet to find a SINGLE fact, piece of evidence or
even a logical argument to support your belief in mormonism. For this reason, it is a safe
bet that none of that exists. You have feelings.
..Feelings and vivid imagination are the foundation of mormonism, since the religion is
without valid evidence or facts.
“Thousands did not see Christ go into Heaven. Just because the bible says it happened,
you must still take it on faith. You have to believe something you didn’t see yourself.”
... You do not have to take it by faith. It is a historical document. Not seeing the event,
but having it supported with historical evidence does not require faith. Here, again, you
are wrong in your premise.
... Again, as a mormon - any mormon - would prefer to subvert the reliability of the Bible
than to admit their religion is TOTALLY unsupported by a shred of any fact or evidence or logic.
“I can prove 2+2=4 and 100% of all sane people accept it as a mathematical and scientific certainty.”
... Yet this has nothing to do with historicity or evidence. I give you credit for trying to shift
the playing field from the validity of the object of the Christian faith - the Real Christ - to something lessor
to justify a created mormon Christ. But it doesn’t fly.
“What percentage of the world would accept that Christ resurrected and went into Heaven after reading
the bible? It can’t be proved. It is not a scientific certainty. One must have faith.”
... Poor thinking. Poor logic. The validity of Christ and the truth of His historicity have nothing
to do with voting percentages. Again, the object of mormon faith is man-made. It is a failed object.
For this reason, mormonism has at its foundation the shifting of truth from its proper objective
basis to a subjective feeling. Your arguments to date all totally ignore the objective and attempt
to shift truth to the subjective world of mormonism to claim equivalency.
Let’s pause and summarize: mormonism is made up out of whole cloth. There is no equivalency between
God’s objective truth and mormonisms created gods.
“I am glad you do as I do have faith in the resurrected Christ.”
... Sure, mormonism and yourself have faith in the created jesus of mormonism
and not the Biblical Jesus Christ - neither created nor made, but eternally God.
No moral equivalence between those two objects of faith. So no, we do not
have faith in the same way at all.
... Your posts ignore the central issues and still focus on ad hominem attacks and
shifting truth to a subjective basis. Try again and you will come to the end of
the road. I soon expect you to end this conversation with a claim that you just know
because you had burning bosoms and that’s that. So I will tell you ahead of time
that your burning feeling is demonic in origin.
best,
ampu
Sounds like someone is throwing another tantrum.
Take some deep breaths and calm down Rumpelstilt..err ampu.
Ben
Sounds like another excuse deflection from you.
What facts, evidence or logic can you show us?
I’m betting you have absolutely none.
... I'm still waiting for you to post:
... in support your truth claims for mormonism.
How is the search going? Any progress?
best,
ampu
--MormonDude(You REALLY don't want to know and have the wrong ATTITUDE anyway!)
Mormon Progression on FR:
1. Deny the truthfulness of what is posted
2. Call names -especially “LIAR”!!!
3. Don’t deal with issues - deflect using ad hominem attacks
4. Shift the basis of truth from objective truth to subjective truth
5. Retreat to personal burning bosoms as the final arbiter of truth
6. Ignore everything
7. Repeat cycle on next thread
... as we’ve seen from our mormonic friend who “likes my life”
ampu
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