Posted on 06/30/2011 1:10:26 AM PDT by Cronos
Don't underestimate yourself.
Spiritual issues are not academics or intellectualism but of spiritual discernment.
1 Corinthians 1 18For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart."
20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."
Thanks for your excellent insight and a fresh perspective.
Thank you, too, MNR, I appreciate your contributions to this dialog. God bless you, as well.
I love those positive words: while we were still weak, Christ died for us; while we were still sinners, Christ died for us; we have now been justified; we shall be saved; while we were enemies, we were reconciled; we are reconciled, we shall be saved; we rejoice, we have now received reconciliation. WOW, what a lot of positives in just a few verses!
Now, I know there will be some who say, "We shall be, not we are, we might be not we will be. Yet in just these few verses - and I know there are many more like it - God assures us that he gives to us eternal life, we ARE saved, we HAVE BEEN justified and we can KNOW we have eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ. No guessing games, no worry, no striving, just a peaceful resting in the promises of God that what he began in us through his Spirit he will bring us all the way home to be with him for eternity. We live by faith. What wondrous love! What matchless grace!
You wrote : “The physical world is raw justice.”
That’s equivalent to the words of the late great Bishop Fulton Sheen: “Nature doesn’t forgive, but the Dear Lord does”.
Blessings also to you.
(Again, I’m a late posting lurker here)
This seems an adequate place for offering these thoughts on two subjects:
Your statement is an obvious truism but it opens up some avenues. One cannot be forced to love. One can be forced to pretend to love but not to love. Of course there is the Stockholm Syndrome but that is conditioned survival, not love.
If someone pretended to love you I suspect you would know it pretty quickly, just as you know your children. Yet, the whole idea leads us to a real and frequent phenomenon - those in the church who strive mightily to do "good" but somehow miss the true message of the gospel and therefore, the joy of living in God. They are an example of the difference between Grace and works. It is through Grace that we receive the Joy which motivates the works. As bb said, they are a twofer, they go together, but works without Grace is empty. Those are the ones whom Jesus referred to whose "gnashing of the teeth" will be heard when, on Judgement Day, they are not called even though they thought they were good soldiers. I know many of them.
As to free will and God's timeless knowledge that takes some hard thinking and even then we may come up empty.
I visualize a forest with millions of trees. Each tree is unique and each tree starts with a seed. As the seed sprouts and the tree grows, limbs branch off into different directions. Each time they leave behind forks in the tree. I see those forks as the decisions we make in life, each decision leading us off on a new path. Yet, God sees the entire tree, indeed the entire forest and beyond. He knows where we are in our tree, which limb and which direction we are taking. He knows where that limb is going, generally, even though it may still have more branches to grow. He knows the entire tree and all the choices.
Well, that is the basic concept and it is good for one more metaphor. Trees die from the inside out.
Just.... wow......
That’s much food for thought.
Well, git to thinkin. :-)
Keep in mind as you remember and quote Scripture, that each thing you cite is simply a part of the whole. Each part illuminates a particular point but each point becomes even more luminous when taken in context of the whole. That is when you see the Love, the Truth, and the Light/Life and that is when you feel the Trinity.
Keep walking in God's blessed Light and keep praying. Prayer is direct contact and that is when you feel it the most. I recommend prayers of thanksgiving as the most beneficial.
I apologize if I sound as if I am preaching to and instructing one who knows much more than I. May God bless you.
Well that strikes me as a distinct possibility.
But then, it's really hard to tell. Because it seems we cannot get any "closure" on what is meant by God's Grace.
Earlier I put up some passages that I hoped would draw comment from my fellow Christians. But so far, zero response has been forthcoming.
So I'll try again. I'll repost the original excerpt, this time as modified by bold-face and italic type.
I suspect what is indicated in bold-face type is what both Orthodox and Reformed Christians can agree on.
What is in italics is the Orthodox view, with which the Reformed Church evidently has some kind of serious problem.
Here goes:
Grace is the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call. The Church teaches us that grace moves us to participate in the life of God and moves us to begin and sustain a relationship with our Creator. Grace not only assists us in living the Christian life through purification of our hearts, it literally changes our souls by infusing divine life to heal the wounds of sin. Grace is wrought through the work of the Holy Spirit, and grace is what initially moves our hearts to conversion and repentance.I'll just let that "hang out there," for comment. If any.
I'm interested in the Truth of the matter, not (doctrinal) opinion.
And so I'm glad to listen to what Christians of any and all description have to say in the matter.
Thank you ever so much, dear brother in Christ MNR, for your outstanding essay/post!
You got no response from me because I agree with it and I attempted to apply the same concept in my own way, but, just for your benefit :-) I will talk a little more about it.
I see an example of it, although a very dramatic one, in John’s epiphany on the road to Damascus. I see Grace as the Gate. It is either open or it is not. I don’t mean that God is arbitrary about that, I mean that if we pray and sincerely seek to enter the Gate, if we believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit and desire to follow that path, then the Gate will open. By that I mean that we sincerely desire to be at one with God and His Love. We desire It for Its own sake and for the Joy it gives us in living in the Spirit.
Those others whom I speak of, and in my experience they are many, desperately desire to escape death so they follow the Scriptures to the best of their ability. They follow the letter of the law but the Spirit of the Law escapes them. They fear death and Hell so they are paying those insurance premiums, following the Law, just in case God is real. In doing so they miss out on the Joy of Belief. That Joy comes through Grace and a true understanding of God and the Scriptures. It is a blessing bestowed upon us by God and it gives us greater understanding. Through this oneness with God and His Love, loving works naturally flow. This fits perfectly with A-G’s The Greatest Commandment.
That is the best I can do at the moment to describe my thinking about Grace and Works.
I see it just that way, too, dear brother in Christ!
Thank you so very much from my heart for your beautiful testimony and truthful witness!
In a couple of your earlier posts, you took pains to point out that you are "not a theologian." Neither am I dear brother in Christ.
Which is probably why I enjoy your posts so much. :^)
Evidently, we both see what A-G, my dearest sister in Christ, sees and testifies to — re: grace and works. She says "There Is Only ONE Great Commandment": Love God with your whole heart and soul and mind and strength (Grace), with its corollary, and thy neighbor as thyself (Works).
They just go together....
Thank you so very much, dear MNR, for your outstanding contributions to this thread!
Which has "gone to crickets," LOL!
So bye for now; May God ever bless you!
“”Which has “gone to crickets,” LOL! “”
Yes it has.
Which means we can have different opinions and still be focused on loving our niehbor even if we don’t agree on things sometimes
I apprciate and respect the post of MNR,betty boob,Alamo-Girl and xzins becuase I believe your hearts are focused on goodness
hey Titanites — where have you been these few months?
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