The Church Built on Peter

The Integrated Catholic Life ^ | June 29, 2011 | Fr. Roger Landry

[Not gonna take it anymore]

After St. Peter died upside down on a cross in the Circus of Caligula and Nero, the surviving Christians obtained his body and buried him quickly nearby, on the steeply sloping Vatican Hill to the north of the Circus. That hill had become a makeshift graveyard four months earlier after the fire of Rome had killed so many residents of the metropolis that their loved ones began to use any open spot they could find on the roadsides radiating outside the city. . . .

When the tropaion of Peter was found underneath the high altar during archaeological escavations in 1941, there was great rejoicing, because it matched what Gaius had written at the end of the second century. Even more exciting was the fact that they found bones in what was clearly Peter’s tomb underneath the victory monument.

[Cronos]

Well, it's not proven that the Gospel of Matthew was originally in Greek or translated to Greek

If it was originally written in Greek, then the literal translation is "you are Petros (masculine) and on this Petra (feminine original word from which Petros is the masculine form) I will build my Church"

He could not have given Simeon a feminine name, so he used the masculine form of the word

Secondly, if it was translated, the same issue would occur

[Cronos]

of course, your words compared to Christ's would not do.

And Jesus came into the quarters of Caesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is? [14] But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets. [15] Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?

[16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art rock; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. [20] Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

It doesn't make sense to say "Blessed are you for saying this, my father revealed it to you. You are rock and upon me, I will build my Church." It doesn't make sense standing on its own nor in context

Rather it is "Blessed are you for saying this, my father revealed it to you. You are rock and upon this rock (you) I will build my Church"

What were Peter's qualities? He was unlearned, a simple fisherman, showed himself to be a coward at times, his faith failed him at times, but he still clung to his simple belief, like a rock

Like a rock -- the simple faith in the Lord is what Christ points out.

[Cronos]

also we are not tied to "an organization", we are tied to the community (church) that was inaugurated by Christ. The body is ONE, not to be rent asunder.

This community is all of us in it, not just defined by the ministerial priesthood but the entire royal priesthood of believers in The Church

[D-fendr]

Hi Jed.

Are you still a prophet?

Whatever happened to that prophecy of yours last spring, soon to come, of “a mountain range rising up straight down Interstate 5 from Olympia through California… parts of the Olmypic Peninsula disappearing,” soon to be a “catastrophe of human life greater than ever fortold, yada, yada, yada… “

Has that one become inoperative yet?

[Cronos]

Oh, I just asked you about your Unitarian beliefs -- how exactly does a unitarian use sola scriptura to justify that Jesus Christ is not God. It should be interesting to read your arguements?

For that matter, can you explain to us why unitarians consider the Bible to be on par with the Koran, Gita, etc. etc.?

[Cronos]

iscool: God baptized them with the Holy Spirit

Cronos: err Iscool, perhaps it's new to you but to us Christians, the Holy Spirit IS God

Mark: "Remember that Iscool tells us that he doesn't believe what he believes and that he alternatively finds God to be God the Father only, or else a diune subordinationist modalist God of the Supreme Father and the meek and mild Son, with the Holy Spirit as an inanimate robot messager who wanders around doing God's bidding."

Ah, yes -- yes, it's weird how often that flip flop occurs -- first one of Iscool's posts implies

God is God the Father ONLY and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are God the Father looking in a mirror

and then another post says

the Holy Spirit is just a tool used by God the Father

Methink the Kirk of Cool (population 1) is revising it's basic doctrine.

[D-fendr]

Small “o” orthodox Christians seem to be quite rare on these threads.

[Cronos]

Well, we in orthodoxy (Catholics, Orthodox, Copts, Armenians, Ethiopians, Assyrians) share the same beliefs and all are appalled by the sheer chaos of folks who think that The Holy Spirit is not God (iscool -- do remember that sins against the Holy Spirit are not forgiven).

even our conservative, orthodox Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist brethern are disgusted by the kirk of one types and their wild interpretations.

[D-fendr]

With a few excepts, I sometimes feel like we’re debating the fringe of the fringe.

[Cronos]

The lunatic fringe, yes. What pains me is that we refer to this fringe as Protestants -- they aren't and they have next to nothing in common with real Christian Protestants like Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists etc.

This bunch includes folks from the Unitarian Universalist, jevhoah's witnesses, folks who think that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are what happens when God looks at Himself in a mirror, then you have the really way out ones like the waswarm flip-flopper.

[D-fendr]

What pains me is that we refer to this fringe as Protestants

That's a very good point. Not sure what to do about it though.

[Cronos]

Well, I’ve stopped referring to the characters we reply to on this thread as Protestants — they’re not Protestants who are Christians. The lunatic fringe will believe anything that is not Catholic — I’ve even had the was warm guy say he believed in a completely Church doctrine only he used a different term. When I told him that was part of the faith, he changed tune to saying he didn’t believe it — their religion is based on not being something.

[Cronos]

What the fringe believes is really the fringe like:

• Apparently you are under the impression that the Bible NEEDS interpretation...Even tho it's written in 6th Grade English...At least my Bible is...

• ..I simply put the verses together where they belong.

• Like I told you before; logic is for people who don't know something...A little bit of education or experience clears up all kinds of logic.

[D-fendr]

Perhaps Heterodox would be a more accurate term.

[Iscool]

St. Paul describes himself as "father" in that he is bringing the Gospel to his spiritual children. He calls himself that several times during his epistles.

So what's that got to do with you calling a mere man the Holy Father???

[MarkBsnr]

Wait a minute; I thought that you were an OT kind of guy. Has your Bible suddently grown? And why pick on Paul rather than Jesus? And where did you get this quote from? It is good form to include the website from whence you lift copy.

At any rate, the Church that Jesus created was built around the Apostles, with Peter at their lead. So you are correct inasmuch as you recognize that.

[Iscool]

Now the passage is obscure?

It is and it is...

I thought all Scripture was self interpretive. Why, as a Christian can’t I just read it and instantly understand it?

If you would just read it, you'd know the answer to that...

[MarkBsnr]

Whatever happened to that prophecy of yours last spring, soon to come, of “a mountain range rising up straight down Interstate 5 from Olympia through California… parts of the Olmypic Peninsula disappearing,” soon to be a “catastrophe of human life greater than ever fortold, yada, yada, yada… “

I had forgotten about that one. Shall we lump ol' Jed in with Harold Camping, the Pentecostals and the JWs?

Or is he in a class by himself?

[MarkBsnr]

Methink the Kirk of Cool (population 1) is revising it's basic doctrine.

I think that it might largely depend upon what the sacrament of the day is: beer, wine, whisky, vodka, marijuana, cocaine, acetone, spray paint, or glue.

[Iscool]

The Church claims nothing for herself that was not given to her by Christ.

Completely false...

In John Jesus says, “As the Father sent me, so I send you.”

So what's that supposed to mean to a Catholic...The reality is; Jesus is still sending people to spread His word...

God, through His Son Jesus has established His Church which is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus didn't establish a Church...Jesus established a church...The church is guided by the scripture which which is the Truth that the Holy Spirit leads people to...

Everything anyone knows about Jesus came to them through the Church, His Church.

More complete nonsense...Every thing I know about Jesus came thru and from the scriptures...And those scriptures did NOT come thru your religion...

The Church has been ENTRUSTED with the fullness of His grace and truth to the extent that God wishes it to be.

Another atrocity...God does not give your church or any institution grace...God gives grace to individuals...

Yes, ALL of it comes through the Church by the will of God.

Not a true statement in the whole bunch...