You wrote:
“You’ve claimed this silliness before.”
I guess you call things you utterly fail to refute silliness.
“Gasquet was an idiot, and no reputable historian would repeat his stupid accusation that the people who loved AND hated Wycliffe didn’t know that the Wycliffe Bible was actually a catholic translation made by someone unknown.”
They just repeat your accusation that even brilliant scholars of the day were unable to recognize Wycliffe’s translation? Isn’t that exactlywhat you said about More? I have much more logical reason to believe Gasquet and More, than you. What Gasquet says makes much more sense than what you say.
“The folks who accused Wycliffe knew full well his role, as did Wycliffe’s supporters.”
But More wouldn’t know?
“A polemical campaign by G. G. Coulton against Gasquet was largely successful in discrediting his works in academic eyes.[3] One of his books contained an appendix “A Rough List of Misstatements and Blunders in Cardinal Gasquet’s Writings.”[4]”
Coulton is discredited.
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1996/9605clas.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1996/9606clas.asp
I distinctly remember my secular minded historians speaking of Coulton with distain because of his polemical nature. No one takes him too seriously today.
Also, none of the historians you cite actually refutes anything Gasquet says.
“There are no known Catholic translations into the vernacular during the 1300s.”
False. Richard Rolle’s Psalter, Yorkshire, c. 1340. West Midlands Psalter, c. 1350. Translations were being made.
“Wycliffe and later Tyndale provided them, at a terrible cost to themselves.”
Nope. Wycliffe died in his bed after a stroke. Tyndale was never in trouble over his translation itself.
“No vernacular translation has ever been found that wasn’t done by either Wycliffe (and his supporters) or Tyndale during that time.”
Again, false: Richard Rolle’s Psalter, Yorkshire, c. 1340. West Midlands Psalter, c. 1350. Surtees Psalter, Midlands or Northern (Yorkshire), c. 1250-1300.
“The idea that an unknown Catholic made a vernacular translation is a fantasy, and it isn’t one shared by any historian.”
Actually the idea that parts of scripture were translated by unknown Catholics is shared by every reputable historian who has ever lived. Again, Richard Rolle’s Psalter, Yorkshire, c. 1340. West Midlands Psalter, c. 1350. Surtees Psalter, Midlands or Northern (Yorkshire), c. 1250-1300, Bible Historiale, etc.
Why don’t you actually learn some history - since all you see,m to do is rely on wikipedia - and read this: Kees Dekker “Reading the Anglo-Saxon Gospels in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries”, in: Anglo-Saxon Books and Their Readers, ed. Thoman N. Hall and Donald Scragg. Kalamazoo, MI, 2008), pp. 68–93.
or
and just for fun:
“More didn’t hide his opposition to commoners having a vernacular translation. It is a shame that some choose to lie about what More proclaimed with pride.”
Are you accusing me of lying?
“False. Richard Rolle’s Psalter, Yorkshire, c. 1340. West Midlands Psalter, c. 1350. Translations were being made.”
Psalters. NOT entire Bibles. Wycliffe did the entire Bible.
“Nope. Wycliffe died in his bed after a stroke. Tyndale was never in trouble over his translation itself.”
Wycliffe was hated by the Catholic Church. Ever read about what they did to his bones? And Tyndale & his translation were also hated, and lived in hiding until Tyndale was betrayed to his death.
“Again, false:”
Again, true. I’m talking about BIBLES, not psalters. Every BIBLE translated in English vernacular from Wycliffe to Tyndale is Wycliffe’s translation (and his followers). NO OTHER translation of the Bible into the vernacular has been found.
“I guess you call things you utterly fail to refute silliness.”
No, I say it is foolishness to claim that Wycliffe’s opponents falsely accused him of translating the Bible. I say it is foolishness to think that the Lo0llards didn’t know who translated the scriptures they kept at risk of death. And it is foolishness to believe a Catholic apologist, 500 years after the fact, suddenly realized what no one on either side had realized for 500 years - that Wycliffe’s translation was REALLY made by a true but unknown Catholic, and Wycliffe stole it.
“Actually the idea that parts of scripture were translated by unknown Catholics is shared by every reputable historian who has ever lived.”
True. PARTS! But we were discussing entire Bibles, and NO ONE did that into English (whatever form it existed as) until Wycliffe, and no one else until Tyndale. No one did the entire New Testament, except Wycliffe & his followers, until Tyndale.
“Are you accusing me of lying?”
I’m accusing you of making blatantly false statements. More made no attempt to hide what he did. Catholic apologists have tried to hide what “saint” More did, and to do so they have LIED.
More wrote 9 volumes about his opposition to Tyndale, and More was not a subtle writer. He pursued Bible believing Christians and had them tortured and burned for disagreeing with the Catholic Church. More was an evil man who wanted to keep scripture out of the hands of commoners - a policy the Catholic Church followed for hundreds of years.