Posted on 06/04/2011 9:05:59 AM PDT by Colofornian
Might be a good point if Beck didn’t already support Romney.
I'd vote for Glenn Beck.
But not a socialist like romney.
To the author:
You morons keep bringing up his faith. That will be the excuse he uses for his failure.
No one would care about his faith but for his and everyone else’s constantly bringing it up.
Before we ever get to his faith he going to deal with a whole host of other issues. Hi most recent being a support of globull whining.
We want our leaders focused on the issues important to us and most of his trope has nothing to do with the dinner table issues.
Dude is toast before we discuss his religion or Marriot.
Point well made.
BTTT
do you have a source for that quote, Ansell? I have a bet here on FR riding on that.
Hey, do you remember our bet? $20 to FR.
The audio link in post 32 is him saying that, he says it immediately after quickly dismissing Palin.
Here is why Mitt’s Mormonism (and he is a True Believing, ‘active’ Mormon) is important. There are aspects of his life/personality that are directly related to his Mormonism...
1) He believes things based upon feelings not facts (such as Global Warming).
2) He will tailor his message to whomever he is speaking to, hence the flip flopping, which is a technique Mormons often use in prosltyzing.
3) He has made very solemn covenants in the LDS temple to put the LDS CHURCH (not God, not Christ, but an organization) before everything, which means the prophet will come before his advisers.
A great book to read on the subject is Rocky Hulse’s “When Salt Lake City Calls”.
TYVM, sir.
Is THAT all he's got? The New York Times knows that!
Our local DOGCATCHER could win on THAT 'platform'!
we elected a racist Muslim, why should we question someone who believes in ET and that Mormom’s live on other planets now??
America and the meaning of a Mormon president
"Dividing bias against Mormons into two categories, Feldman described hard prejudices and soft prejudices.
The former are ideologically based and more common among conservative evangelicals. Usually based on vague or misinformed notions of LDS theology, these prejudices are very hard to overcome.
In between bragging about the wealth of mormons, (Romneys, Huntsmans et. al) time is found for whining about being persecuted...I suggest they take a look at REAL persecution. Real persecution is not found in disagreeing with doctrine.
BINGO indeed!
And MORMONs play this like Jesse Jackson plays his race card:
"You've offended me(us)! Stop it or the world will KNOW that YOU are not a TRUE Christian!"
And we ae enraged at THEY!!
(But WE Americans ALLOW an average of 3,300 every DAY to be killed: A sacrifice to the god called CHOICE.)
Is there NOTHING wrong with this picture?
Not as long as he believes/ they MORE-MANS will be administering the LAW from Missouri while Jesus rules from the Mount of Olives No way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25PGOODs99o
Or a call to arms...
(I hope an alternative explantion is permissible)
You mean like the found in the following???
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHICHAPTER 224 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
Or even HERE:
1 Timothy 3:2-3
2. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3. not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.1 Timothy 3:12
A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.Titus 1:6
An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTSSECTION 1325157, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 5866, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
I don’t care one way or another so don’t bother to ping me if you come up with an explanation of your own.
No, we're well-informed -- to the point that some who are anti pro-keep-from-hell-Mormons even make up stories out of thin air about me that I'm an ex-Mormon missionary! :)
But, yes, I saw that Hal Boyd piece in the DesNews this weekend before you linked to it...Upon reading it, I had to say...I'm not sure when I saw a more historical-revisionist spin spun with so many outright lies and incomplete explanations than what that shame-faced wannabe journalist wrote.
The DesNews should either bump him up to the Lds, Inc. PR dept or fire him for masquerading as a journalist.
Aside from your quote from that piece of trash from the Mormon-owned newspaper, here's the portion that bothered me...Let me take it apart as it comes:
Prejudice against Mormons began when their founding prophet and president, Joseph Smith, claimed heavenly visions in upstate New York. Subsequently, he and his followers were driven from Ohio...
They were "driven" from Ohio, Mr. Boyd? Really? That's news to me! From all accounts, Joseph Smith had a bank failing and left Kirtland, Ohio in the middle of the night to avoid all those he still owed!
Mr. Hal Boyd, wannabe journalist representing the DesNews, what specifically do you mean by "driven?" Smith didn't even move his church HQ from Ohio to MO until March 1838 -- and in the 1830s -- the two "rough" short time periods the Mormons had [short in that they took place about 5 months over the calendar-years of 1833, 1838] -- Missouri was the "hot spot" -- not Ohio...unless you mean, Smith again put himself in the hot financial seat there!
I've read several chapters by Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith -- Essentials in Church History + several entries on MO from Church History: Selections from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism edited by Daniel H. Ludlow...I didn't see ANY references to Smith himself being "persecuted" from a Mormon angle until Liberty Jail.
Boyd, DesNews: ...to Missouri to Illinois. After Smith's violent death in Illinois, more persecution prompted a mass exodus to the Salt Lake Valley. The flight to the Utah Territory didn't stay American prejudice; it continued with the Utah War and the Edmunds-Tucker Act, which dictated the incarceration of polygamists and the federal confiscation of Church land.
Let's see, if my memory serves me correctly, polygamy/bigamy was a criminal act in the 19th century! [What the Edmunds-Tucker Act addressed as its underlying motivator]. And the Utah War? Zakeet has done an excellent job chronicling how it was our troops who died at the hands of the Mormons with their raids of Federal cattle and food spoilage and the like! What Mormons died in the so-called "Mormon War?"
Per Sally Denton's 2003 book entitled: American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, September 1857 (Vintage Books, division from Random House), she noted what took place in Sept. 1857 -- the same exact month Mormon massacres were on the loose in Southern Utah Territory executing 120 -- including 7-yr-old twins, stealing the plunder, and kidnapping 15-17 children!
...small guerilla forces on swift horses and under the direction of Danite chiefs William Hickman and Porter Rockwell began harassing the army. Setting fire to the government's wagons and stampeding its cattle herds, the Avenging Angels created havoc for the already demoralized American troops. On October 3 the Danites burned Fort Bridger, then set fire to the grass surrounding the army post, threatening the survival of the government's grazing lifestock. On October 5, fourty-four Danites raided an army supply train, burning the seventy-five wagons loaded with three thousand pounds of desperately needed bacon, coffee, flour, ham, and other foodstuffs, and running off fourteen hundred head of the army's cattle. The army troops moved two miles away and from the smoldering Fort Bridger established a new camp, which they named for the army's commanding general, Winfield Scott. (Sally Denton, p. 168)
Hal Boyd, DesNews: Even after Utah's incorporation as a state in 1896, the U.S. House of Representatives still refused to seat the recently elected Mormon, B.H. Roberts.
ANY explanation at all from this sorry-excuse of a Mormon writer named Hal Boyd? Any at all offered up?
B.H. Roberts, who was a Mormon General Authority, was elected as a Democrat to represent the new state of Utah in 1898. Roberts has assumed a THIRD (count them, three) wife in 1893 -- three years AFTER the Mormons were supposed to have sequestered polygamy!
The fledgling GOP had already determined 42 years prior to that that as their social issues they would tackle the "twin relics of barbarism" -- polygamy and slavery.
The GOP of the 19th century had the fortitude to actually STAND for something, unlike the Mormon leaders, including Romney! They took it on to the degree that in 1898, 7 million Americans signed 28 banners telling Congress NOT to seat B.H. Roberts. Congress listened to the American people and didn't seat him!
Can you imagine 7 million signatures in pre-media crazed America? All on 28 banners? Can you, Mr. Boyd, comprehend the grass-roots uprising that Democrats like B.H. Roberts was provoking? Here, Mormon leadership was telling them one thing, but their leaders were tallying additional plural marriages onto the rolls!
Hal Boyd, DesNews: In the early twentieth century American-Mormon relations began to turn a corner, but only after Reed Smoot's Congressional hearings. Reed Smoot (a Mormon Apostle) was elected to the U.S. senate in 1903, yet his seating faced a three-year-long Congressional debate that included a three-day-long interrogation of Mormon Prophet Joseph F. Smith.
Ya better believe it!
Allow me to cite Ken Clark, who worked full-time for the LDS Education System for 27 years!
Lying for the Lord
The following was written by Ken Clark for MormonThink.com. Ken worked full time for the LDS Church Education System (CES) for 27 years. He also served as a bishop; a calling he enjoyed as much as full time instructor and Coordinator for the Church Education System. He loved (and still loves) the students and the ward members....
Ken gave an excellent presentation on Lying for the Lord at the 2008 ExMormon Foundation Conference in Salt Lake City. Lying for the Lord on You Tube. [indirect link]
...89. Ninety year-old President Wilford Woodruff took a new plural wife in 1897 one year before his death. He married Lydia Mamreoff von Finkelstein Mountford who was a 49 year-old. She was a guest lecturer in Salt Lake City, having been invited by James E. Talmage. President Woodruff was captivated by her. She was baptized in February 1897. They traveled together to California and used assumed names when registering in a hotel in Portland, Oregon. Between 20 and 22 September 1897, they were married while sailing back to Portland from California. Mountford was the legal wife of Charles Edwin Mountford. This would not be the first instance of plural marriage to a woman still legally married. Joseph Smith practiced that concept at least 11 times (In Sacred Loneliness, pp. 15-23). It has always been postulated that whatever others did after the Manifesto, President Woodruff had honored the "revelation." The marriage was later solemnized by proxy in the Salt Lake Temple in 1920. (B. Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant, 228-232)
90. The LDS leaders' constant use of prevarication turned friends against them. Theodore Schroeder, once friendly to the Mormons became a bitter enemy when he discovered the extent of the deceit used by church leaders and members alike. In 1897 he wrote essays exposing the continued practice of polygamy, despite denials issued by the church. He set out to prove that the church had consistently lied about its involvement with polygamy since the Nauvoo period. (Solemn Covenant, 246)
91. B. H. Roberts admitted taking plural wives as late as April 1890 during the Smoot Hearings, contradicting President Woodruff's statement in the Manifesto that no such marriages had taken place in the year preceding the Manifesto. Roberts was probably lying about the year he married his last plural wife, Dr. Milford Shipp. She was still legally married and lived with her husband until 1892. The marriage to Roberts most likely occurred in 1894. Roberts managed to expose both he and President Woodruff as deceivers at the same time. (Solemn Covenant, 247)
92. When B.H. Roberts was elected to the House of Representatives after Utah became a state, the House voted to exclude him because an investigation revealed that Roberts was engaged in polygamous marriage and that one of his wives had married him after the Manifesto. Since it was a clear violation of the law of the land, and he and the LDS leadership had ignored society's legal code, he was declared unfit for office. A petition was circulated demanding that B.H. Roberts be denied a seat in Congress. Seven million citizens signed it and it was presented to Congress. Those considered enemies by church leaders were provided a national platform to advertise abundant evidence of dishonesty on the part of Mormon church leaders and members. (Solemn Covenant, 249, 250)
93. Reed Smoot was elected to the United States Senate in 1902 and federal lawmakers protested immediately. He was sworn into office in March 1903. But government authorities feared that Smoot was a polygamous sympathizer, though he was not a polygamist himself. It was also a well established fact that the church had engaged in deception for decades to evade the law. Because of the church's reputation for dishonesty, the Smoot investigation lasted more than 3 years (1904-1907) and resulted in over 3,000 pages of sworn testimony. The scope of the inquiry broadened to include the history, theology and culture of Mormonism itself. If the citizens of the U.S. doubted the honesty and veracity of the Mormon leaders and their people before the hearings, afterward they did not doubt due to mountains of testimony and documented evidence. The Mormons were guilty of unending prevarication. (Solemn Covenant, 251)
94. President Joseph F. Smith was the first witness called and placed under oath to tell the whole truth before the Smoot investigation. His testimony may have been the most damaging. He pled incredible ignorance concerning the polygamous activities that he personally permitted and encouraged. Yet he admitted to fathering children by 5 wives since 1890, after the Manifesto had been issued. He categorically denied that Presidents Woodruff and Snow had authorized polygamous marriages after the Manifesto. He knew that to be false. He went on to say that he had not heard anyone "advocate, encourage or recommend" plural marriages since the Manifesto. This was false. U.S. leaders and citizens joined with the LDS members in disbelief that President Smith would blatantly lie under oath-denying what others plainly knew to be true. One witness suggested tongue in cheek that President Smith was using his words differently than the way most people use them. (Solemn Covenant, 253)
95. Mormon apologist histories complain about the "persecution" heaped upon President Smith at the hearings, and praise his dignified responses. The truth is the constant stream of duplicity and lies increased the hostility toward Mormons. Most were disgusted with the Mormon Prophet, Seer, and Revelator who refused to come forth with a degree of honesty while under oath before the Senate hearings. (Solemn Covenant, 253-254)
Secondary Sources: See http://www.mormonthink.com/lying.htm and for Ken Clark's testimony, see Why I left
Hal Boyd, DesNews: Smoot's distinguished thirty-year career in the senate, along with other 20th century developments, eventually helped assuage Mormonphobia by showing Americans that the LDS Church was, by most accounts, a benign institution.
Let's see. The Smoot Hearings were a mere 46 years after the Mountain Meadows Massacre (MMM). Benign? You need to understand that the National Press didn't even begin to cover the MMM in earnest until John D. Lee's mistrial in the mid-1870s! That was less than 30 years before the Smoot hearings! Benign? My foot -- and Fancher party's very lives! Along with U.S. Govt. troops, Missouri victims of the Mormons, and the apostates they killed by shedding their blood via blood atonement.
Besides that, as Hardy shows in his books, the Mormon leaders were NOT to be trusted. They could NOT be taken at their word!
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