Camping May 21 Rapture and the Replacement Theology Lie

It is easy to say the LCMS is fine, but is it?

It is even easier to blame 'them' for one's own problem.

>>Trying to fix denominations as a whole is likely a losing battle. Christ will return first. Holy Spirit will call out those really focused on Christ . . .<<

It’s already happening and will intensify as time goes on.

Romans 11 (New International Version) Romans 11

The Remnant of Israel

1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”

9 And David says:

“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.”

Ingrafted Branches

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

All Israel Will Be Saved

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

emphasis added

The scripture is clear that Israel is the foundation of The Church. The gentile believers are grafted onto the tree that is Israel, and the nation of Israel will once again be lead to their God and to their Messiah Jesus of Nazareth. It will be a joyous union of the gentile church, the believing nation of Israel and our common Lord and Savior, Jesus.

“lead” should be “led”. Sorry.

I wouldn't be too glib about tossing the word Pharisee

I agree, I hope the log has been taken out of my eye. I do need to be careful in my FICTIONAL account that I do not slander anyone. It may not be a good idea to proceed with this on FR. I am sort of waiting on the Lord. I keep on wanting to stop but you know how addictive FR can be also.

It is even easier to blame 'them' for one's own problem.

A true statement.

That's a shame, which group left?

We say them, they say us.

Objectively, did pastor leave and a group follow?

Just because one doesn't agree with you doesn't make one pharisaical

I agree, I am talking more about observed behavior. Like on FR the pharisee behavior is evident and unity in faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ is evident. It is neat how the unity here transcends denominations.

Objectively, did pastor leave and a group follow?

In my fictional account: The Holy Spirit left with the Pastor and a group. I am an elder in the group.

If you are talking church building that is one of the idols the pharisee worship.

Thank you for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!

I agree.

"No apologist can claim that Martin Luther bore his anti-Jewishness out of youthful naivete', uneducation, or out of unfounded Christianity. On the contrary, Luther in his youth expressed a great optimism about Jewish conversion to Christianity. But in his later years, Luther began to realize that the Jews would not convert to his wishes. His anti-Jewishness grew slowly over time. His logic came not from science or reason, but rather from Scripture and his Faith. His "On the Jews and Their Lies" shows remarkable study into the Bible and fanatical biblical reasoning. Luther, at age 60 wrote this dangerous "little" book at the prime of his maturity, and in full knowledge in support of his beliefs and Christianity."

"Few people today realize that Luther wrote 'On the Jews and Their Lies.' (He also wrote such works like "Against the Sabbatarians.") Freethinkers should become aware of the anti-Semitic influence that Luther has brought on the world. His vehement attack on Jews and his powerful influence on the believers of the Germans has brought a new hypothesis to mind: that the Jewish holocaust, and indeed, the eliminationist form of anti-Semitism in Nazi Germany may not have occurred without the influence from Luther's book "On the Jews and Their Lies."

"Walter Buch, the head of the Nazi Party court, admitted Luther's influence on Nazi Germany:

When Luther turned his attention to the Jews, after he completed his translation of the Bible, he left behind "on the Jews and their Lies" for posterity."
-cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]

"Many people confess their amazement that Hitler preaches ideas which they have always held.... From the Middle Ages we can look to the same example in Martin Luther. What stirred in the soul and spirit of the German people of that time, finally found expression in his person, in his words and deeds."
-"Geist und Kampf" (speech), Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]

"Hans Hinkel, a Nazi who worked in Goebbels' Reich Chamber of Culture said:

"Through his acts and his spiritual attitude he began the fight which we still wage today; with Luther the revolution of German blood and feeling against alien elements of the Volk was begun."
-cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich

"Bernhard Rust served as Minister of Education in Nazi Germany. He wrote:

"Since Martin Luther closed his eyes, no such son of our people has appeared again. It has been decided that we shall be the first to witness his reappearance.... I think the time is past when one may not say the names of Hitler and Luther in the same breath. They belong together; they are of the same old stamp". [Schrot und Korn].
-Volkischer Beobachter, 25 Aug. 1933, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]

Martin Luther's dirty little book: On the Jews and their lies

Thank You GiovannaNicoletta; Many Lutherans idolize Brother Martin. Thank you for some background on my Luther/Hitler connection in my OP thesis. BTW Have we disagreed about anything yet on FR?

BTW Have we disagreed about anything yet on FR?

I don't think we have! :)

So you left with the group that included the pastor. Interesting use of idol for the building, as you leave with your Messiah. And you, not the LCMS pharisees, restrain the Holy Spirit because He left with you. Hope you guys retain coffee, if it is purple kool-aid one Sunday at fellowship, look out.

Now all the idol worship talk, aliens at the White House, the doctrine pride, this thread, (the posting of anyway) etc makes sense. You left because the pastor's heterodox ideas which you support(ed) grew a flock within a flock. When a mean powerful congregant, a white guy no less got ahold of the District President Pharisee of the LCMS the DP tried to mediate, but it was obvious he was racially indisposed towards the heterodox preacher by his attempts to get him to return to his ordination vow regarding doctrine.

But he couldn't because the Holy Spirit saved him after He talked to you and anyways the righteous God-fearing people of the pastoral clique said "NAY, we're the LCMS church" and the non-heterodox of the former congregation said "Nay, we're the LCMS church" but they couldn't be because they were just self-righteous and evil clinging bitter folk, clinging to their old doctrine and not seeing the 'truth' in the heterodox preacher's viewpoint.

As a result when the Synod (which means 'walking together') stepped in they chose the group who was foolishly following the old ways, but the main reason they did is because of the church building which as anyone who has read the bible knows is a common idol to Lutherans, especially the evil pharisaical LCMS type. And because LCMS has german roots, very likely it was racist as well.

Got it, and believe it or not have seen it. Here's how it plays out. The new church grows and it is very exciting because so many see the spirit filled environment. But because the old place kept our church, most of the sermons are on money to keep the new place going. Soon the Gospel preaching dies and the preacher leaves to write music or poetry which really was his first love. Independent now, the new founders as disillussioned followers scatter, never to return to the old, ashamed to repent and claim the promises of God they wander endlessly or worse are picked off by the world. All because of the doctrinal 'pride' of the LCMS pharisees.

WOW You are making many assumptions. I guess we could try to wade through some of it. My position is that P#4 is the most Lutheran person I have ever met as far as doctrine. Heresy in teaching was never an issue. They tried but failed miserably. I already mentioned the discrimination component. It was not racial it was national. The Messiah for everyone is the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit moved us apart. We have Lutheran worship and Bible study every week.

The call to P#4 was unanimous. Everyone felt it was the Holy Spirit. P#4 accepting the call had associated miracles. After a few months P#4 knew our church had lied in the call documents and started the process of leaving. The Holy Spirit through unusual events stopped the process. I am marbren not P#4. I think presently P#4 has nomalcy bias about end times like most Lutherans because of replacement theology. He has nothing to do with my understanding of the end times we are in. Imagine he is a Lutheran not marbren. P#4 believes in replacement theology and was an anti Semite while all this was happening. P#4 also has a disability that was diagnosed during this period.

We are the true church the other group of pharisees is heterodox. There is also a component of sheeple and elderly, like my Dad who do not have a clue about what happened. Remember this is my story and it is fiction.

Also, there is a concept of rules that should be followed and were not. What are the usual church boiler plate constitutional reasons for a removal of a Pastor. I believe Belteshazzar posted them earlier in the thread.

It was not racial it was national.

What is that?

My position is that P#4 is the most Lutheran person I have ever met as far as doctrine.

Did it include that 'pride'?

After a few months P#4 knew our church had lied in the call documents and started the process of leaving.

How so?

P#4 believes in replacement theology and was an anti Semite while all this was happening.

So he hated Jesus' race? How was this anti-semitism manifested? Did he rail about the Juden?

WOW You are making many assumptions.

LOL, considering the lack of info forthcoming from you it was a pretty good analysis.

I will probably begin my fictional story with a history of my church, how that dirty pride may have begun. Much of it is due to the proud heritage of EG#1, my ethnic group.