Posted on 05/21/2011 4:46:26 AM PDT by marbren
Camping is a victim of replacement theology. IMHO the lie of replacement theology is almost as insidious as idolatry. The key to holistic understanding of Bible prophecy is to understand the role of Israel in it. God keeps his promises to Israel. This is a model to the rest of us that he will keep his promises to us as well.
A majority of the church going world has been victimized. I believed the lie for 35 years. During the past 20 I have been seeking the truth and only recently did I stop saying IMHO replacement theology is a lie and replaced it with: Replacement theology is a lie dropping the IMHO. For those that do not know, Replacement theology is the lie that the Church has replaced Israel in God’s plan.
The church was polluted by Replacement theology early on. Origen and Augustine, early Fathers of the church, were the first to muddy up the scriptures in this way when they arrogantly took on the mantle of Israel for themselves. Martin Luther apparently did not study it and this lead to his anti-Semitism and Hitler. In many ways IMHO it is like a reverse of the circumcision party that led to Acts 15.
This replacement theology lie has lead to the church we have today. Everyone is running around not knowing what is happening in these end times we are in. The truth is The Church, the Bride of Christ, has a role and Israel has a role. Think of men and women, children and parents, husbands and wives, angels and people, dogs and cats, sheep and goats, wheat and tares. All these have roles God invented.
So the solution: Open your Bible, drop your preconceived notions and open your mind, ask God to reveal the truth about all this Israel stuff written in the Bible. The Lord Jesus Christ is central in it all. Gods Grace and Mercy is incredible, He does all the work. Faith and hope and love permeate the entire Bible and the greatest of these is love.
BTW One reason I posted the prayer was to start to give a flavor of P#4 teaching. Did you have any concerns about the prayer?
No, looks like one from a contemporary service. Does he use the Message translation at all?
We even have a word to describe this pride. Which is?
I have to keep it secret for a while.
My fictitious rambling on FR is just a way of me seeing if a book is possible. My best friend was my project partner In Washington DC during college. He, and P#4 are probably the most brilliant people I know, You know the kinds that think on a level high above others. Quix comes to mind on FR but I think I will meet him personnally on the other side of the river Jordan, God willing. Anyway we were doing this project and I was lost, I didn't have a clue, He got the idea to engage me in the project. He took out a tape recorder and just started a conversation with me about the project. Before you knew it he showed me that I know something after all and the project was a success. This is what I am doing now on FR.
What should the book be about? Has the LCMS lost it's way? Why all these shell like church buildings in America? Is the Congregational model a good one? My friend is an expert on holistic interoperability of institutions. I could use his methods and show how the LCMS has failed holistic interoperability like all human institutions do. Is the age of denominationalism over ? These are just a few thought right now written down so I don't forget them.
In what ways do you see your church as dysfunctional?
Sounds like a viable topic.
Thx for your kind words. Whatever’s good is obviously from The Lord! Nothing of my doing. LOL.
hmmmmm holisitic interoperability . . .
LOL.
Why not just say
THEY’RE BROKEN and can’t be easily fixed.
Every group/institution needs reinvented/overhauled about every year or 2.
P#4 uses many translations including Message. Like in John 21 agape and philo mean more than the English translation of love for both. He of course knows Greek and Hebrew. He does presently run a contemporary worship. The congregation wanted a move away from page 5 and 15 of the old TLH. I love those worship services but defer to the Pastor. I am sure he would use them as well if that is what the all powerful laity wanted.
That is another question why bother trying to fix earthly institutions?
The congregation wanted contemporay so they got it, and the pastor would use the divine worship services if the congregation wanted to? Objectively, you have zero problems at your church. What is the major dysfunction you see at your church? Without that knowledge you are wasting my time since you appear to be attempting research vice asking for advice from a co-religionist. Do you have a racial problem? The 'universal church sans denominations' that you envision is a pipe dream in a sinful world.
Maybe my book should be ding dong the religion witch is dead!
You can't tell me the word for this evil pride? Because it is going to be the name of your book? Very lame to use kid's vernacular.
My fictitious rambling on FR is just a way of me seeing if a book is possible.
So you have no issues at church, you have issues with yourself and your current church, no doubt based on your 'epiphany'. Great, another inward focused subjective touchy-feeler, should fly off the shelves.
Wellllllllllllllllll
I’d say more . . . that the
RELIGION WITCH is morphing into a pan-everthing-ism which will morph quickly into blatant satanism.
Wellllllllllllllllll
I’d say more . . . that the
RELIGION WITCH is morphing into a pan-everything-ism which will morph quickly into blatant satanism.
In specific local groups,
it’s probably worth tweaking them more toward living out the Biblical model . . . I Cor 12-14.
Trying to fix denominations as a whole is likely a losing battle. Christ will return first.
Holy Spirit will call out those really focused on Christ . . .
etc.
Events will pick up speed and at some point any organized efforts will be left in the dust as Holy Spirit orchestrates relationships, connections, groups, events, worship, everything.
So all we need is an institution that isn't run by humans and introperates holistically because human institutions can't holostically interoperate. So if animals and aliens are out, we'll have to wait for heaven. Therefore, LCMS isn't heaven, got it. That is a surprising find, good work. Just remember Earth Day and recycle.
Just make sure it has a blue cover when it is published.
That is one of the issues at the church.
What is the major dysfunction you see at your church? Without that knowledge you are wasting my time since you appear to be attempting research vice asking for advice from a co-religionist.
You may be right I do appreciate your input so far. If you do not want to discuss any further I understand. You did open my eyes about maybe I was too broad in assuming my church was typical in the LCMS. Maybe it is dysfunctional.
I am trying to figure out the best way to unfold my story. Also, I am still not sure if it is my local church dysfunction or LCMS dysfunction. It is easy to say the LCMS is fine, but is it?
The villains to me are the self righteous congregation members and thanks to your input I'll now say some instead of all synod officials I have met. I feel they are pharisees.
I know the fruits of the church members because I was a pharisee with them and have known them all my life. They chose the pharisee road with Pastor P#4, I was faithful to my calling. The synod officials I have met only briefly. Now with your input I must reassess my judgment. Maybe they were just uninformed about my church dysfunction. LCMS DP is a pharisee however, I have known him all my life. The process I have been through with the truth that came with P#4 opened my eyes to this fact. A tree is known by its fruits. The LCMS president may have been working with bad information. Some of his actions were not appropriate.
My church is presently in a schism worshiping in 2 locations.
I AGREE
I agree I should have said Most churches maybe.
I've attended a lot of churches in my almost 60 years, and have never heard replacement theology advocated from the church. I have, however, heard individuals and small groups within churches espouse such theology. However, it was readily apparent they were ill-read in the scripture to begin with.
That's a shame, which group left? If you do not want to discuss any further I understand.
I haven't been discussing anything, outside of the cryptic references you've made and the 'pride' deal this is the first info you have allowed.
I wouldn't be too glib about tossing the word Pharisee when describing other. Just because one doesn't agree with you doesn't make one pharisaical. They are supposedly all Christians first that have an unknown disagreement. There are good reasons to disagree by the way.
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