Richard Dawkins accused of cowardice for refusing to debate existence of God

The Telegraph ^ | May 14, 2011 | Tim Ross

[Bed_Zeppelin]

Richard Dawkins has made his name as the scourge of organised religion who branded the Roman Catholic Church “evil” and once called the Pope “a leering old villain in a frock”.

But he now stands accused of “cowardice” after refusing four invitations to debate the existence of God with a renowned Christian philosopher.

A war of words has broken out between the best selling author of The God Delusion, and his critics, who see his refusal to take on the American academic, William Lane Craig, as a “glaring” failure and a sign that he may be losing his nerve.

[hosepipe]

[ Poll: was this guy better in Hogan’s Heroes or Family Feud ? ]

Wrong Dawson.. but both are comedians..

[circlecity]

"How can anyone really be strong on metaphysics? Isn’t it really just someone’s theory?"

No, it's primarily just applied logic. Is the logical law of non-contradiction (a metaphysical doctrine) "just someone's theory"?

[pnh102]

... but John Paul II and Benedict XVI are distinguished and honorable men by any reasonable secular standard.

The funny part about that is "any reasonable secular standard" in the Western world inevitably is borrowed from Judeo-Christian teachings about what is good and what is not good. :)

[Popman]

Richard Dawkins main problem is he has a "god complex"

Rather ironic that he doesn't believe in god

[stuartcr]

Does it really apply to metaphysics?

[Tax-chick]

That’s true - excellent point.

[circlecity]

"Does it really apply to metaphysics?"

Why wouldn't it? If it doesn't than nothing does.

[ConservativeDude]

You know, interestingly, Werner Klemperer was also Jewish and his father escaped Vienna just in time.

When you step back and think about the Nazi cost to music for busting up Vienna, it makes you feel really sick. Many like Klemperer escaped. Many didn’t have the foresight, or the guts, or something else.

What a terrible era of history.

So when you think about that, you know, Hogan’s Heroes, is really rather poignant. It was dealing with some very grave matters, but in the form of comedy and this was, after all, only the 1970’s. WWII was still very recent history.

I would highly recommend watching the Klemperer interview on the Pat Sajack show, easily found on youtube.

If you want to see what a dignified, distinguished, intelligent man is like, this is a great resource. Klemperer comes across as a thoroughly decent human being.

And...with all that...your points on Dawson are well taken.

Just how DID he keep from laughing uproariously? Brilliant!!!

[PieterCasparzen]

When one looks at the most brilliant apologists for atheism, Russel, Hume and Flew it becomes quickly appearant that Dawkins isn’t close to being in their class.

Interesting that you mention Russel; years ago I bought "Why I am not a Christian" by Russel, which I couldn't even read, as I recall it was just typical of an overeducated European blowhard. That may sound harsh since he is so revered, but as he made various points he did not even address what would be a theological response to each of his points. Very basic elements of theology, not finer points or obscure concepts. To me that simply is someone pretending to write a serious contention about a subject he was not knowledgable of.

Just more evidence for my personal view, IMHO, that between sometime in the 1800's and WWII many significant European intellectuals were seriously missing the point of their respective fields, very arrogant and yet mistaken in much of their thought (moreso than the overeducated normally do) and laying the groundwork, unwittingly, for both world wars.

[ConservativeDude]

s the logical law of non-contradiction (a metaphysical doctrine)”

I believe according to Aquinas, this is the first principle of metaphysical reasoning.....you are quite correct.

[ConservativeDude]

Flew really was brilliant. And he was/is anti-socialist, which I always loved.

His atheistic arguments were always really strong. I always thoroughly enjoyed his challenge.

And isn’t it interesting, that he is no longer an atheist? Again, Flew was always honest, truly intellectual, and really, very courageous. He went the way that his intellect told him to go, and he wasn’t afraid to work hard.

I respected him even when he was an atheist; I respect him even more now.

May the Lord bring Flew to full knowledge of him in this life.

[circlecity]

"but as he made various points he did not even address what would be a theological response to each of his points."

You would have to cite examples. I don't think, for the most part, theology makes for persuasive apologetics because it generally begs the question.

[stuartcr]

Personally, I don’t see how logic can apply to the subject of God. How would you logically talk about resurrection, salvation, virgin birth, forgiveness of sins, original sin, an all-knowing being that knows the future, etc?

[ConservativeDude]

I can give one. In that pathetic little essay Russell chastises Jesus for cursing the fig tree. He sees it as gratuitously cruel.

The cursing of the fig tree cannot be understood outside of a thoroughly theological context. But Russell didn’t bother to look beneath the surface of his simplistic, facile reading. He read the Gospel account on HIS terms, rather than on its own terms, and with knowing something of the theological context which is necessary to understand why Jesus cursed the fig tree.

[circlecity]

"How would you logically talk about resurrection, salvation, virgin birth, forgiveness of sins, original sin, an all-knowing being that knows the future, etc?"

Why couldn't you talk logically about any of those doctrines? None of the things you cite violate any of the elementary rules of logic.

[Tax-chick]

It looks like it's out of print, so I 'd better have my husband order it for me when he gets home. I think I saw him on an A&E "Biography" interview, or something similar.

[HerrBlucher]

Didn’t Flew fly the atheist coop and change his mind?

[Tax-chick]

Thanks for the recommendation on the Klemperer interview; I’ll pull it up later. I’ve seen him in various tv episodes over the years, including “Law & Order” a couple of times. An old-school, very skilled actor.

Ivan Dixon, who played Sgt. Kinchloe, went on to be a very successful tv director, including many episodes of “Magnum, P.I.” He died a few years ago - quite old! - here in the Charlotte area.

[stuartcr]

God knows the future, He knows what you’re free-will choices will be. He creates you knowing you will choose to do something that will send you to hell for eternity. Yet He loves you. Please explain this logically.