Posted on 05/14/2011 10:57:12 AM PDT by TaraP
It’s a little joke from the Undead Thread, where this month’s themes include flamingoes, aardvarks, and cat-plotz in the garden.
Obsessing about “end times” is a waste of time since we ALL have an End Time coming up no matter what.... death. Worrying about some “potential” global end time is pointless given that.
Who is Obsessing?
Jesus spoke of the Last Days..
Matthew 24:
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Thanks for the website!
All doubters watch this video: http://www.defendproclaimthefaith.org/obadiah_15.html
Can you please give the Scriptures which tell us that the Abrahamic Covenant, through which God gave the Jewish people the land of Israel, is conditional upon their behavior?
All doubters watch video post on 86 comment. This video I saw two years ago. It sealed it for me. He compares news clipping through out the existence of Israel pertaining to the USA’s action toward Israel. 60 years. Just amazing!
Thanks much!
I will watch!
Thank you for post.
The *Key* is and always has been *Israel* 1948 started the clock.....
Says who? There isn't anything in the Bible that suggests that any clock "starts ticking" upon a declaration of Independence by Ben-Gurion banging a gavel on a table.
A "ticking clock" implies time. Is there a itinerary of scheduled events posted in the Scriptures for national Israel to follow once the clock starts ticking? (Answer: No)
Also, what makes May 14 1948 so special other than the paperwork was pretty much ready to go by then? Why isn't the First Aliyah (circa 1881-82 through 1903) considered the rebirth? Or the 1917 Balfour Declaration? How about the day when Israel has all of the land that they once had in Joshua's day (in fulfillment of the Abrahamic Land Covenant) Maybe the clock hasn't started ticking because national Israel hasn't taken control of the Promised Land. Or maybe your god isn't capable of ordering events to make the whole land promise come about, and so you settle on a compromise that as long as they have a flag - that is suitable to start the clock ticking despite your god's inability to actually bring Israel together.
So you think that their government is what God had in mind for Israel? That a socialist parliamentary system is the model God set up for Israel? Where exactly is the Temple? Original Israel always had a temple, and when Solomon's was destroyed and the exile was in effect, the first thing promised and put under construction was a Temple - yet this modern secular Israel has no desire whatsoever to build a Temple. Forty years ago Israel had full control over all of Jerusalem and could have built casinos, whorehouses and anything else they might desire on the Temple Mount - but they squandered that long opportunity to build a Temple. How is it that God is supposed to be honored by a people that figure that they are better off without a Temple? Has national Israel decided to accept Jesus Christ? Since they are the largest enemies of our LORD and of His Church, rejecting Christ is to also hate God - and God is supposed to be pleased with that too?
The Apostles clearly conveyed the idea in their writings that they fully anticipated the LORD's return during their lifetime. Even John, who y'all claim received the Revelation after the fall of Jerusalem starts off that famous writing in the very first sentence claiming that the prophecies "must shortly come to pass" - that throws away any idea that the existence of Israel starts some "clock ticking".
Oh, and your feeling that a cyclical drought in Texas is the real one this time because now Israel is around (how you can connect the Bible, secular Christ-hating Israel and Texas weather with prophecies written thousands of years ago is beyond me) is put to rest when you consider we had a bigger drought 44 years ago - Israel was around at that time and had control of East Jerusalem and was literally surrounded by actual armies engaged in actual war - and we are still here.
Can you please give the Scriptures which tell us that the Abrahamic Covenant, through which God gave the Jewish people the land of Israel, is conditional upon their behavior?
Ask you and shall receive!
Deut 6:17-19 You shall diligently keep the commandments of the Lord your God, His testimonies, and His statutes which He has commanded you. And you shall do what is right and good in the sight of the Lord, that it may be well with you, and that you may go in and possess the good land of which the Lord swore to your fathers, to cast out all your enemies from before you, as the Lord has spoken.
The problem with your demand is that it presupposes an incorrect understanding of the Abrahamic Covenant, and Covenants in general.
Repeatedly, our LORD reminds the people that the only reason they will inherit the Land is because of the Promise that our LORD made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. in this passage from Deuteronomy, God is going to give them the Land because He is Faithful and True - not because the wanderers deserved anything. But if you note, the passage seems to say that keeping the land was contingent on their keeping the promises. In fact, upon entry into the Promised Land, Joshua asked the people to choose to follow God or to reject Him. For not even a full generation the people sort of obeyed God, and indeed God was faithful to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and indeed they inherited ALL the land that God had promised them. Yet within a generation the children of Israel rebelled, and as you can see, with the possible exception of the days of Solomon, have never again had full possession of the Land, and because the Covenant was not strictly about the physical land (Heb 8), but of the heavenly Kingdom (Hebrews 11:10).
Today's Israel is worse than those of Joshua's day, in that they observe none of the Temple rituals and have rejected God's Son. Since God has already fulfilled the physical land promise, there is no expectation or obligation on God's part to honor any land deals that the Zionists impose on God. Since the Abrahamic Covenant was a type of the "city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God... that is heavenly" (H 11:10,16; 12:22,28; 13:14; Rv 21:14), the New Jerusalem is the Church - those who are of Faith.
Today's Israel is (spiritually) blind and must remain blind until after the rapture or they would be taken. When the spiritual famine comes, they will go in search of spiritual food, and they will find Christ. Joseph and his brothers will be reunited.
The Abrahamic Covenant is an unconditional covenant. God made promises to Abraham that required nothing of Abraham. Genesis 15:18-21 describes a part of the Abrahamic Covenant, specifically dealing with the dimensions of the land God promised to Abraham and his descendants.
The actual Abrahamic Covenant is found in Genesis 12:1-3. The ceremony recorded in Genesis 15 indicates the unconditional nature of the covenant. The only time that both parties of a covenant would pass between the pieces of animals was when the fulfillment of the covenant was dependent upon both parties keeping commitments. Concerning the significance of God alone moving between the halves of the animals, it is to be noted that it is a smoking furnace and a flaming torch, representing God, not Abraham, which passed between the pieces. Such an act, it would seem, should be shared by both parties, but in this case it is doubtless to be explained by the fact that the covenant is principally a promise by God. He is the one who binds Himself. God caused a sleep to fall upon Abraham so that he would not be able to pass between the two halves of the animals. Fulfillment of the covenant fell to God alone.
God determined to call out a special people for Himself through whom He would bring blessing to all the nations. The Abrahamic Covenant is paramount to a proper understanding of the kingdom concept and is foundational to Old Testament theology. (1) The Abrahamic Covenant is described in Genesis 12:1–3 and is an unconditional covenant. There are no conditions attached to it (no “if” clauses, suggesting its fulfillment is dependent on man). (2) It is also a literal covenant in which the promises should be understood literally. The land that is promised should be understood in its literal or normal interpretation—it is not a figure of heaven. (3) It is also an everlasting covenant. The promises that God made to Israel are eternal.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Abrahamic-covenant.html
The Abrahamic Covenant was entirely and completely dependent upon God and was not conditional in any way, shape or form on the behavior of the Jews.
As usual, you are pathetically wrong.
LOL!
It takes a peculiarly high level of brash arrogance to publicly reject the Doctrines of Grace and pretty much everything else characterizing the Reformation (which you have done recently) because you don't understand the Covenants and then lecture someone who is well learned in Covenant Theology.
There is a reason why I posted the references to the passages in Hebrews. Just because you reject the Gospel and don't value the letter to the Hebrews doesn't make you a credible lecturing scholar on the topic.
Judging by your perseveration on the mechanics of a particular patriarchal covenant leads me to believe that you are bogged down on the tree and missed the view of the forest.
Pray, and then read Hebrews and see if you mature a bit more in the faith.
Can you please give the Scriptures which tell us that the Abrahamic Covenant, through which God gave the Jewish people the land of Israel, is conditional upon their behavior” =================
Those scriptures you seek are the entire New Testament, where Israel and the 12 Tribes are fulfilled in the Church and the 12 Apostles. John 3:16 works for me along with numerous others.
And you have, for me, readied that scripture saying the “Bible, alone” is your faith?? When you find that let us know.
“I think Romans 11: 25-27 addresses your concern on Israel.”...
I have no concern on Israel as related to your general thesis posted. I see the New Testament give over the People of God, clearly to the Church with 12 Apostles, as foreshadowed by, Israel and the 12 Tribes. Scripture snatching is deplorable for me, I can only recommend the entire context of the New Testament, sans the poultry pecking of the Word going on.
Your self-proclaimed expertise in Covenant Theology is particularly unimpressive since there is no Scriptural validation to be found for false doctrines such as assuming covenants that are never mentioned in Scripture, denying the distinction between Israel and the Church, having a double standard for interpretation of Scripture such as using the historical-grammatical method of interpretation, except for passages concerning future events and when dealing with passages regarding the future of Israel or the kingdom of God and then reverting to an allegorical or spiritualizing method of interpretation, and amillenialism.
Your mistake of attempting to unify Scripture by saying that Biblical distinctions are merely different phases of the same Covenant of Grace is part of the reason why you can't grasp that the Abrahamic Covenant is a distinct covenant made by God with Abraham and his descendants which God alone took responsibility for and insuring that He alone would be the only party responsible for keeping the covenant by putting Abraham to sleep when the covenant was made. You have to deny the word of God to force your false doctrines to work.
Pray, and ask God to bring you to a knowledge of, as He puts it, "rightly dividing the word of truth" so that you don't continue to put yourself in the precarious position of hating the chosen people of God and having to deny Scripture to make your false beliefs work.
Boy, that was lame. I need specific Scriptures from you which contradict the Scriptures in Genesis which detail the fact that the Abrahamic Covenant, in which God gives the land of Israel to the Jews, is conditional upon their behavior.
Would you like to try again?
That should read, "is not conditional upon their behavior".
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