Separation of Church and State-Manifest Destiny or Manifest Heresy?

http://www.seattlecatholic.com/a050615.html ^ | 2005 | David Palm

[vladimir998]

12,960,000 more Protestants voted for Obama than did Catholics.

When you write, “Your lack of interest in why Catholics are voting for abortion and liberalism as Democrats,” you’re expressing your ignorance. I know EXACTLY why they do it. They are choosing to be like tens of millions of Protestants.

[ansel12]

That is one of the most bizarre arguments I have ever heard, but your militancy and lack of interest in conservative vote getting and conservatism is a very good example of how difficult it will be for conservatism to penetrate Catholicism.

[ansel12]

A real conservative is concerned by the fact that Catholicism makes people liberal while Protestantism makes them conservative, that is valuable information and it can help us change the nation and our future, especially in view of the Mexican colonization of our country.

While 54% of all Catholics voted for Obama, only 52% of Hispanics that are Protestant did, there is something to work with there, in fact, in 2004, 56% of Protestant Hispanics voted Republican, that should be looked into as we try and figure out how to swing Catholics over to the pro-life GOP.

[vladimir998]

12,960,000 more Protestants voted for Obama than did Catholics.

That’s the truth. How can you say that’s a bizarre argument. I would love to hear your explanation.

[vladimir998]

12,960,000 more Protestants voted for Obama than did Catholics.

I’m not blaming them solely. I’m just saying who did what.

[stfassisi]

“”how difficult it will be for conservatism to penetrate Catholicism.””

American Conservatism is not a moral authority of mankind and American Liberalism is chaos.

There is self serving side to both.

Both American conservatism and American liberalism’s foreign policy allowed for killing Christians and has Christian blood on it’s hands

Bush Sr endorsed Syria’s plans in Lebanon,that allowed Damascus to invade and kill Christian populations, and the Clinton administration bombed Serbian Churches.These are just a few examples,there is much more throughout history

Latin and Orthodox Catholics who actually follow the faith correctly follow a much higher moral authority,the teaching of 2000 plus year old Church founded by Christ and are neither conservative or liberal.

A Catholic/Orthodox who has elevated american conservatism and american liberalism above Church teach is in error

[stfassisi]

Church teach = Church teaching

I need a new keyboard.

[Kolokotronis]

Bravo! Chauvinistic political theory and labels pose a danger to the Christian soul and while we should love our homelands and our fellow countrymen and pray unceasingly for our communities and leaders, we must never forget that the here and now is just that, here and now. We were created for theosis. Our Church teaches us what is vital and has for 2000 years. It is, of course, The Faith, which is true for all time and all people. To paraphrase the Synodikon of the 7th Ecumenical Council, this is the Faith of the Apostles; this is the Faith of the Fathers; this is the Faith which has established the Universe!

[stfassisi]

Chauvinistic political theory and labels pose a danger to the Christian soul and while we should love our homelands and our fellow countrymen and pray unceasingly for our communities and leaders, we must never forget that the here and now is just that, here and now. We were created for theosis. Our Church teaches us what is vital and has for 2000 years. It is, of course, The Faith, which is true for all time and all people. To paraphrase the Synodikon of the 7th Ecumenical Council, this is the Faith of the Apostles; this is the Faith of the Fathers; this is the Faith which has established the Universe!

Agreed! Thanks

[annalex]

Good article. Indexed it on my profile page.

[annalex]

I would, however agree to a point with the dissenting views expressed here. American experiment (there was a great Freeper here one day, A.Pole, and he porposed "The Montesquieu Project") does not, of course, necessitate the separation of Church and state in the sense the modern liberals today see it: as a complete ban of religious expression on public property or by public officials. But it certainly forbids writing any religion into the Constitution.

Further, if any religion be so written (like it was in some state constitutions) following an amendment process, that would have been a generalized Protestant religion, or perhaps, just Christian without specifying the confession. Would Catholicism be written in to the Constitution, even if legally possible, that would signal in fact the end of the American Project and a beginning of something else. That is because exclusion of America's foundational religion, Protestantism, would also be a clear and irreparable break with our national past.

While I think that America of the future will be Catholic and Orthodox predominantly, I think that should happen as a fact on the ground rather than legislated.

[annalex]

Create a Catholic society first. In a truly Catholic society, the state is a secondary and not entirely necessary consideration.

Yes.

[ansel12]

You do not want Catholics to vote like Protestants, I wonder why you are even on a conservative political site.

[ansel12]

Personally, I support conservatism, the majority of Catholic voters do not, and the democrats are importing more of them, Catholics have always served the democrat party in America.

[vladimir998]

You want Catholics to be like Protestants, I wonder why you even claim to be Christian.

[wideawake]

There is a difference between a Catholic ruler and a Catholic state. The notion of a state as a distinct entity separate from kinship ties, land ownership or personal allegiance was unknown to the Armenians and forgotten to the Romans.

The government of Rome was held alternately by Catholic, Arian and pagan believers depending on who was able to win the personal allegiance of the armies.

The notion of a confessional state really begins with the Peace of Westphalia - and even then it is inconsistent.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“The government of Rome was held alternately by Catholic, Arian and pagan believers depending on who was able to win the personal allegiance of the armies.”

Okay, let’s test your theory. Please name for me all of the Arians and pagans who were Roman Emperors after Theodosius the Great made Roman Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire.

[stfassisi]

“”Personally, I support conservatism””

I vote that way,but it’s not because I think it will enhance Christian values of historical Orthodoxy,but rather it’s less evil with some good mixed in.

“”the majority of Catholic voters do not””

The majority of so called Catholic’s in the US don’t take the time to follow what the Church teaches because many are to lazy to learn the faith because materialism means more and that’s where they spend their energy.

The same could be said for the liberal protestant

[ansel12]

LOL, I want Catholics to vote like Protestants, evidently you could care less about it.