Separation of Church and State-Manifest Destiny or Manifest Heresy?

http://www.seattlecatholic.com/a050615.html ^ | 2005 | David Palm

[ansel12]

If we can figure out a way to get Catholics to vote like Protestants, then we can turn this thing around.

[sigzero]

Yes! Because we can change the laws! Why in the world would we codify “Catholic” virtues into the constitution? There was a good reason the Founders didn’t do that (and they wouldn’t have either because except for Charles Carroll, a Roman Catholic, and a few Deists, every one subscribed to Protestantism). It doesn’t work and the Founder knew that.

[sigzero]

The problem is NOT with the Constitution. The problem is with the Roman Catholic Church and other Christian denominations. They sit on the sidelines and let legal abortion happen, and let pornography increase, and let the destruction of the family happen. When it is time to fight, they have sat it out. No sir! Don’t blame the constitution for the FAILURE OF THE CHURCH!

[stfassisi]

“”The problem is NOT with the Constitution. The problem is with the Roman Catholic Church and other Christian denominations. They sit on the sidelines and let legal abortion happen, and let pornography increase””

How ignorant of you.

The Church has dogma against these atrocities for over 2000 years,the constitution allows them does it does not define everything that is sinful. This is our countries demise right now by immoral people-which is not the teaching of Christ

People who follow the constitution and not the Church and Christian teaching are at fault. They don’t care what the Church teaches and have the audacity to call themselves Christian. They are not!

Plauralism is a failure

[Iscool]

“I pray for the day in which my countrymen are converted to the Catholic Faith in sufficient numbers that we will elect Catholic leaders and amend our Constitution to give Jesus Christ and the Church He established rightful place in our government.”

That's why I will not vote for a Catholic politician...

[Kolokotronis]

The God Ordained Emperor John II Comnenus and Empress Irene of the Christian Roman Empire which lasted 1141 years.

This mosaic from Agia Sophia embodies the very real and popular view which that society, from top to bottom, had of itself for over 1000 years. It seems to me an unthinking arrogance for modern Westerners to dismiss out of hand one of the greatest, if not the greatest, human cultures and form of government in favor of the depravity which surrounds us today and which found it's roots in what we euphemistically call the "Enlightenment".

[AmericanVictory]

The Constitution does not speak of the separation of church and state; the separation of church and state was invented by the “progressive” and former klansman justice Hugo Black in a Supreme Court opinion in which he seized upon a single letter by Thomas Jefferson that was unlike anything else Jefferson wrote and its phrase “wall of separation.” As a klansman Black was staunchly anti-Catholic. What the Constitution does speak of is that there shall be no establishment of religion, with the Church of England clearly in mind. The result of this decision, as pointed out in earlier posts has been the deification of the state a la Hegel and now a reversion to the worship of the Erdgeist so that humans are seen as sacrifices to Gaia.

[wideawake]

Catholic governments can only exist when the vast majority of citizens are believing, practical Catholics.

The entire notion of an officially Catholic state is an invention of the 17th century.

The very notion of a unified nation state with a government as a distinctly delineated social force is more recent.

Create a Catholic society first. In a truly Catholic society, the state is a secondary and not entirely necessary consideration.

[Free Vulcan]

Diddo that.

[vladimir998]

(6) Early America.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“If we can figure out a way to get Catholics to vote like Protestants, then we can turn this thing around.”

Protestants gave us Obama.

[ansel12]

The majority of Protestants voted against Obama, the majority of Catholics and homosexuals voted for the pro abortion Obama.

Quit playing childish games.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“The entire notion of an officially Catholic state is an invention of the 17th century.”

Fourth Century actually. First Armenia (under King Tiridates in 301), then the Roman Empire under Emperor Theodosius the Great in 380.

[vladimir998]

I have proved this to you before.

“Overall, 45% of Protestants voted for the Democrat, an increase of five points since 2004.” http://pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/How-the-Faithful-Voted.aspx

Protestants make up A HUGE PRORTION OF THE U.S. POPULATION. There are only 65 million Catholics. In February and March 2002 the Pew Research Council concluded that 52% of Americans chose Protestant as their preferential religious term to describe themselves. Right there that means there are 145 million Protestants. And who knows how many are Protestants but don’t use that term! Even when you deduct millions of Protestant children, felons, people who didn’t vote it still means that PROTESTANTS PUT OBAMA IN OFFICE.

Catholics only make up a portion of the population while Protestants are a huge and overwhelming majority. PROTESTANTS PUT OBAMA IN OFFICE.

[The_Reader_David]

To your list add

(6) The Massachusetts Bay Colony

(7) Cromwell’s England

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“You can’t blame Protestants when 54% of Catholics voted for Obama vs 45% of Protestants.”

I MOST CERTAINLY CAN. Try to think. If Protestants vastly outnumber Catholics - and they do - and almost half of Protestants voted for Obama, then that means Protestants made Obama a viable candidate and put him in office.

“Doesn’t matter the exact number break down, the % ratio comparison shows Catholics by +9%.”

And yet PROTESTANTS overwhelm Catholics by tens of millions and almost half of them voted for Obama. Thus, there were millions more Protestant votes for Obama than Catholic votes. Thus, Protestants put him in office.

It’s just that simple.

[vladimir998]

I just looked at the numbers again.

There were a little less than 130,000,000 TOTAL votes cast. TOTAL.

Of that 130 million, 54% called themselves Protestants. The real number would be higher because many Protestants do not use the term “Protestant”, preferring to be called “Christians”. No matter what, 54% of that 130 million is just over 70,000,000.

Of that 130 million, ONLY 27% were Catholics. That’s 35,100,000.

Therefore: Of the 70 million Protestants, we know that 45% voted for Obama = 31,590,000.

Therefore: of the 35 million Catholics, we know 54% voted for Obama = 18,900,000.

Thus 12,960,000 more Protestants voted for Obama than did Catholics.

Thus, Protestants put Obama in office.

Feel free to refute what I have said. All the numbers are freely available on the internet at reputable sites.

Just remember, 12,960,000 more Protestants voted for Obama than did Catholics. Actually the number maybe millions higher than that.

[ansel12]

The reality is that Protestantism leads Americans to vote Republican, and that Catholicism leads Americans to choose the Democrat party.

As a conservative I am interested in what we can learn from that fact, and how to get Catholics to start voting Republican, or as Protestants.

Your lack of interest in why Catholics are voting for abortion and liberalism as Democrats, does not surprise me, I am realistic enough to recognize that since the majority of Catholics do vote Democrat, that we conservatives can expect responses like yours, even here on a conservative site.

[Alamo-Girl]

I believe the following map illustrates the issue, how the majority religious beliefs correlate to voting patterns.

A brief scan suggests that the Baptist and LDS are successful in turning out conservative voters.

Religions which dominate a county (the dot in each county) ought to be turning out strong socially conservative voters. Where they are not, e.g. South Texas, there's work to do with a good chance for success, i.e. getting their members to take their religious beliefs seriously (pro-life, anti-gay marriage, etc.)