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To: muawiyah; livius
Ever wonder why Italy didn't manage to follow up on its early discoveries in the New World? Check Religious Wars and 30 Years War. They turned into a backwater in that period.

Italy didn't because it's ports are in the Mediterranean and Italy didn't discover the new world -- Italians did but flying under the flag of Spain or Portugal -- both Atlantic facing powers

In the entire thrust of History you see different forces that move nations

In Sumeria and Harappa and the Nile what was important was to be on a river, not near the sea

At the time of Sargon II to Alexander the important thing was to control the land passages.

Then the Eastern Mediterranean opened up (or rather it always was, but now it became strategically important) and Italia was a back-water

But then, as the Western Mediterranean and British tin trade grew, Italy with it's ports on both the east and west was now strategically important, hence the importance of Rome AND Carthage

But this lasted until Columbus discovered America -- remember that in 1400, the population of England+Wales was 2.5 million, Scotland was 0.5 million and Ireland the same, all of Germania + the Netherlands was 12 million and France was 12 million too --> but much of France's population was near the south as it had always been. Ditto for Spain and Italy's population was comparatively huge - 11 to 12 million and with massive trading powers in Pisa, Genoa, Naples and Venice.

Italia (I use that as Italy was not a united country then until the 1800s) declined for the same reason that other Mediterranean powers declined -- the world passed by them.

Italy was not involved in the 30 years or religious wars and was hardly affected by the Reformation, so their decline, was, as I stated, purely because the trading region passed them by

36 posted on 05/13/2011 2:05:04 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: Cronos
BTW, that's just one theory about the fall of the Italian peninsula. My own favorite theory is that with the Westward advance of the Ottomans in the 1400s, and a continuation of that advance on into the 1500s, all your up and coming young bucks in Italia LEFT for greener pastures!

Certainly the Spanish Empire had the welcome mat out.

There was also the Portuguese Empire, France, and, of course, England and it's interests. Indonesia certainly had room for aggressive young Europeans.

42 posted on 05/13/2011 5:17:24 AM PDT by muawiyah
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