Posted on 05/09/2011 10:59:18 AM PDT by Bokababe
.....The guidelines I used in interpreting Scripture seemed simple enough: When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense. I believed that those who were truly faithful and honest in following this principle would achieve Christian unity.
To my surprise, this “common sense” approach led not to increased Christian clarity and unity, but rather to a spiritual free-for-all!
Those who most strongly adhered to believing “only the Bible” tended to become the, most factious, divisive, and combative of Christians-perhaps unintentionally. In fact, it seemed to me that the more one held to the Bible as the only source of spiritual authority, the more factious and sectarian one became. We would even argue heatedly over verses on love! Within my circle of Bible-believing friends, I witnessed a mini-explosion of sects and schismatic movements, each claiming to be “true to the Bible” and each in bitter conflict with the others. Serious conflict arose over every issue imaginable: charismatic gifts, interpretation of prophecy, the proper way to worship, communion, Church government, discipleship, discipline in the Church, morality, accountability, evangelism, social action, the relationship of faith and works, the role of women, and ecumenism. The list is endless. In fact any issue at all could-and often did-cause Christians to part ways.....
(Excerpt) Read more at journeytoorthodoxy.com ...
You seem to assume I have not.
The opposite is true.
not read and follow our own mind
Not true. God gave us our minds to think and form opinions. All of us follow our thoughts. Now, our thoughts can and should be molded by various forces in the church (not all because there always will be false teachers) as well as Scripture.
To NOT follow your own mind is to be an animal. God gave you your mind to use. Do not be a machine.
There was no such thing as the Papacy in the time of Constantine and the first councils. Augustine lived during this time, this is when he laid the groundwork for the Papacy with his book, “The City of God” (see post 44).
“teach all nations.....”
you, by your own words in your posts, have decided to do things your own way, using “your mind” what conceit! this is neither biblical, nor historical. again i say, Jesus gave His authority to the Church, if we are to follow Jesus, we must be taught by the Church. the devil wants us to believe you don’t need the Church, we have a mind, think for yourself! this is idolatry of the first order, you are in reality worshipping your mind and not Jesus!
The true church? You didn’t read what I said apparently, so here, I’ll say it again:
The gates of hell has not prevailed against the true church. It has prevailed, despite the thousand year tyranny of the RCC. The truth marches on.
better go back to history class, clement of rome was admonishing the church at corinth late 1st century, he could only do so as st peters successor.
who invented the trinty heresy in your eyes?
No, I never said that.
The reason we study the Bible is NOT to do things our way, but to form our thoughts and actions according to the principles of Scripture.
we must be taught by the Church
Yes, the church, is a not only an important but vital part of God's plan.
i read what you said, so i am asking what church you are talking about, please name a leader of this church in the first four centuries. i suspect you can’t, because this church i believe only exists in your imagination, never in history. i can name catholics in all 21 centuries since Jesus ascended to heaven, can you?
“according to the principles of Scripture”
as you understand it, again worshipping your mind over Christ and His Church.
“vital part of God’s plan”
but not as vital as your mind, since you have set yourself up as the final authority for doctrine, rather than being taught by Jesus thru His Body on earth, the Church.
private interp. of the Scriptures is a doctrine straight from the pit of hell.
The universal church, the saints who have believed in Christ for salvation.
please name a leader of this church in the first four centuries. i suspect you can’t
You would really believe I couldn't name James, Paul, Peter?
The Papacy is an institution that arose on the ruins of the Roman Empire, in the name of Christ occupying the throne of the Caesars. Augustine’s “City of God” and his Amillennial doctrine playing a major role.
The handbook I quoted in post 44 put it like this, “the ghost of the Roman Empire came to life in the garb of Christianity.”
“The Papacy is not the Church, but a political machine that got control of the Church, and, by assumed prerogatives, interposed itself between God and God’s people.”
they lived until 300ad? as i thought, a nonexistent church.
“political machine that got a hold of the church”
Jesus told us the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church.......i’ll believe Jesus over your “handbook”
I'm not sure what you're talking about. You asked me to name a leader in the first 4 centuries. I named three.
If you want more (though you only asked for one) Augustine, Athanasius, Basil, Gregory.
why are you avoiding my question on the Trinity? you reject One God in Three Persons, don’t you?
thank you, you named four catholics.
Nonsense. Where on earth are you getting this?
I never said MY fallible mind was the "final" authority. I have repeatedly said that it's important to interact with other members of the church to grow in understanding.
Actually, I named seven saints all together. Did you forget about the first three?
And why would you assume I would not include catholics in the universal church?
either you are under the authority of the Church for doctrine or you are not. it’s like being pregnant ( or not ) “interacting” with others is not what Jesus had in mind. for example, do you accept the teaching of baptismal regeneration as taught by the Church for 2,000 years or does your mind ( in consultation with others ) tell you this is a false doctrine?
So Scripture plays no part, eh?
either you are under the authority of the Church
I am under the authority of the church.
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