Posted on 04/23/2011 1:27:26 PM PDT by NYer
Where is Christ after he dies on Friday afternoon and before he rises on Easter Sunday? Both Scripture and Tradition answer this question. Consider the following from a Second Century Sermon and also a mediation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
An Ancient Sermon:
Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him – He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . “I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead.” [From an Ancient Holy Saturday Homily ca 2nd Century]
Nothing could be more beautiful than that line addressed to Adam and Eve: I am your God, who, for your sake, became your Son.”
Scripture also testifies to Christ’s descent to the dead and what he did: For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison….For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does. (1 Peter 3:18; 1 Peter 4:6).
Consider also this from the Catechism on Christ’s descent to the dead, which I summarize and excerpt from CCC # 631-635
[The] first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell [is] that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead.
But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there [1 Peter 3:18-19; 1 Peter 4:6; Heb. 13:20]. Scripture calls [this] abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” – Sheol in Hebrew, or Hades in Greek – because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God [1 Peter 3:18-19].
Such [was] the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they awaited the Redeemer: It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior …whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.”[cf Psalms 89:49; 1 Sam. 28:19; Ezek 32:17ff; Luke 16:22-26]
Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.
[So] the gospel was preached even to the dead. The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.
Christ went down into the depths of death so that “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.”[1 Peter 4:6] Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying, destroyed “him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage” [John 5:25; Mt 12:40; Rom 10:7; Eph 4:9].
Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth.”[Heb 2:14-15; Acts 3:15]
See post #29.
In the Holy Bible, the expression "the Bosom of Abraham" is found only in two verses of St. Luke's Gospel (16:22-23). It occurs in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus the imagery of which is plainly drawn from the popular representations of the unseen world of the dead which were current in Our Lord's time. According to the Jewish conceptions of that day, the souls of the dead were gathered into a general tarrying-place the Sheol of the Old Testament literature, and the Hades of the New Testament writings (cf. Luke 16:22; in the Greek 16:23). A local discrimination, however, existed among them, according to their deeds during their mortal life. In the unseen world of the dead the souls of the righteous occupied an abode or compartment of their own which was distinctly separated by a wall or a chasm from the abode or compartment to which the souls of the wicked were consigned. The latter was a place of torments usually spoken of as Gehenna (cf. Matthew 5:29, 30; 18:9; Mark 9:42 sqq. in the Latin Vulgate) — the other, a place of bliss and security known under the names of "Paradise" (cf. Luke 23:43) and "the Bosom of Abraham" (Luke 16:22-23). And it is in harmony with these Jewish conceptions that Our Lord pictured the terrible fate of the selfish Rich Man, and on the contrary, the glorious reward of the patient Lazarus. In the next life Dives found himself in Gehenna, condemned to the most excruciating torments, whereas Lazarus was carried by the angels into "the Bosom of Abraham", where the righteous dead shared in the repose and felicity of Abraham "the father of the faithful". But while commentators generally agree upon the meaning of the figurative expression "the Bosom of Abraham", as designating the blissful abode of the righteous souls after death, they are at variance with regard to the manner in which the phrase itself originated. Up to the time of Maldonatus (A.D. 1583), its origin was traced back to the universal custom of parents to take up into their arms, or place upon their knees, their children when they are fatigued, or return home, and to make them rest by their side during the night (cf. 2 Samuel 12:2; 1 Kings 3:20; 17:19; Luke 11:7 sqq.), thus causing them to enjoy rest and security in the bosom of a loving parent. After the same manner was Abraham supposed to act towards his children after the fatigues and troubles of the present life, hence the metaphorical expression "to be in Abraham's Bosom" as meaning to be in repose and happiness with him. But according to Maldonatus (In Lucam, xvi, 22), whose theory has since been accepted by many scholars, the metaphor "to be in Abraham's Bosom" is derived from the custom of reclining on couches at table which prevailed among the Jews during and before the time of Christ. As at a feast each guest leaned on his left elbow so as to leave his right arm at liberty, and as two or more lay on the same couch, the head of one man was near the breast of the man who lay behind, and he was therefore said "to lie in the bosom" of the other. It was also considered by the Jews of old a mark of special honour and favour for one to be allowed to lie in the bosom of the master of the feast (cf. John 13:23). And it is by this illustration that they pictured the next world. They conceived of the reward of the righteous dead as a sharing in a banquet given by Abraham, "the father of the faithful" (cf. Matthew 8:11 sqq.), and of the highest form of that reward as lying in "Abraham's Bosom". Since the coming of Our Lord, "the Bosom of Abraham" gradually ceased to designate a place of imperfect happiness, and it has become synonymous with Heaven itself. In their writings the Fathers of the Church mean by that expression sometimes the abode of the righteous dead before they were admitted to the Beatific Vision after the death of the Saviour, sometimes Heaven, into which the just of the New Law are immediately introduced upon their demise. When in her liturgy the Church solemnly prays that the angels may carry the soul of one of her departed children to "Abraham's Bosom", she employs the expression to designate Heaven and its endless bliss in company with the faithful of both Testaments, and in particular with Abraham, the father of them all. This passage of the expression "the Bosom of Abraham" from an imperfect and limited sense to one higher and fuller is a most natural one, and is in full harmony with the general character of the New Testament dispensation as a complement and fulfilment of the Old Testament revelation. source
AMEN!!
DelphiUser:
Because at some point in salvation history, before the Incarnation, the gates of heaven had been closed. Thus those who died in communion with God, while dead in the flesh, their spirits [which don’t die] were in prison. Thus, Christ went to the abode of the dead referred to as the “Spirits in Prison” (cf 1 Peter 3:18-20).
As the Iganatius Catholic Study Bible edited by Prof. Scott Hand and Curtis Mitch, published by Igantius Press indicates, this has been one of the most difficult passages to interpret throughout Christian history and there is no consensus of theological opinion among the Church Fathers. For example, the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible’s commentary [p.456] notes that St. Clement of Alexandria [150 to 215 AD] interpreted these verses to to mean that Christ, during the silence of Holy Saturday descended to the dead to make a final offer of salvation to deceased sinners of Noah’s time.
St. Augustine, as the Ignatius commentary notes, posited that Christ because of his prexistant Divinity, preached to the ancient world through the person of Noah urging sinners to repent before the flood.
My thoughts on this is that it is interesting that while St. Augustine’s theology has had a major influence on Catholic Doctrine and theology, this interpretation never was the dominate one.
The Ignatius Commentary points to St. Robert Bellarmine, who lived in the from 1542 to 1621 and was among the best Catholic biblical scholars of that era [ohh how the Jesuits use to be!] interpreted the passage similar to St. Clement of Alexandria as he reconnected it to Holy Saturday but he proposed that Christ descended to the dead to announce his salvation to those sinners who had privately repented before the onset of the flood.
The Ignatiuis commentary also notes that more modern Catholic Biblical scholars sugges that these “spirits in prison” may be fallen angels that are alluded to in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6.
Now the Navarre Bible and Commentary points out that Some Church Fathers [e.g., St. Hippolytus of Rome] viewed the spirits in prison as the Just of the OT who were in the bosom of Abraham and were waiting for Christ Resurrection, etc.
1 Peter 4:6 also has the passage where Christ “preached the Gospel to the Dead”. Again, the Navarre Bible and Commentary suggest that it could mean the OT Just who are in the bosom of Abraham or alternatively, Christians who die before witnessing the final victory of Christ. Regardless, the Navarre Bible and commentary notes that 1 Peter 4:6 is clearly referring to those who have stayed true [persevered] to God.
In closing, the Bible does not specifically or clearly say where Christ went betwen his Crucifixion and Resurrection only that he went to preach to the abode of the dead and he also preached to the spirits of prison. The Church Fathers and Tradition give us some hints to where this is, so as a Catholic and also the Eastern Orthodox, we have some parameters of interpretation via Tradition and the Church Fathers, although there is also not one definitive interpretation.
Regards and hope this helps
The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity". The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."
Think of a pretzel ...
The three empty holes in the pretzel represented the Christian Trinity.
Thanks.
Great questions! And good observation that the resurrected Jesus told Mary He had not yet been to that place where His Father in Heaven resides.
Since Jesus already said that man could be saved only by baptism (John 3:3-5; Mark 16:16; Matt 3:14-15) and many of those in the world of spirits, (Paradise or Sheol, where Jesus went between His death and resurrection) had never heard Christ’s teachings and had not been baptized, Christ, through his apostles, established a way whereby men on earth could perform baptism by proxy for the dead. Only a cruel God would exclude some from Heaven because they never heard of Christ or had a chance, while in life,to hear and accept His word. Paul spoke of this in I Cor. 15:29, when he asked “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?” So the dead needed to be taught and given the same chance as men in mortality to accept or reject, and Christ began this work when He visited the spirit world.
A really complete treatise on the subject of baptism for the dead in the early Christian Church, and on the writings of early Church fathers on the subject of Christ’s visit to and mission in the world of departed spirits is found at:
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/temples/baptism_ancient_nibley.html (Be sure to also click on the extensive footnotes)/
You sound like a mormon. You put the book of mormon above the Church and Bible. If you read the first book (the bible) you would know you can not add that mormon book. Sorry! All real Christians believe in 1 John4. The mormons do not believe.
It's amazing how some want to quibble over things that really are trivial when it comes to the death and Ressurection of Jesus of Nazareth. The importance here is that we honor the sacrifice of Christ, and his willingness to lay down his life for the sins of the world. He did that in three days, irregardless of what day it was.
Have a blessed Easter!
Or the Shamrock. One entity with three parts.
So Jesus was the original "Undercover Boss."
Satan cheated and the world’s first bet was made.
The icon shows Jesus, vested in white and gold to symbolize his divine majesty, standing on the brazen gates of Hades (also called the "Doors of Death"), which are broken and have fallen in the form of a cross, illustrating the belief that by his death on the cross, Jesus trampled down death (see Paschal troparion). He is holding Adam and Eve and pulling them up out of Hades. Traditionally, he is not shown holding them by the hands, but by their wrists, to illustrate the theological teaching that mankind could not pull himself out of his ancestral sin, but that it could come about only by the work (energia) of God. Jesus is surrounded by various righteous figures from the Old Testament (Abraham, David, etc.); the bottom of the icon depicts Hades as a chasm of darkness, often with various pieces of broken locks and chains strewn about. Quite frequently, one or two figures are shown in the darkness, bound in chains, who are generally identified as personifications of Death and/or the Devil.
Where is Jesus now? We need him.
Please read the scriptures.. On His first coming He came to save..When He comes again it will be to judge the world
Actually Jesus is the one that will judge the world
John 9 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Acts 10 :42 "And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead."
Act 7 30-31 "The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead."
Romans 2"16.."in that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus
2 Tim4:1 "I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:"
Matthew 16:27"For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done."
2 Corinthians 5:10"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
On that day we will all stand before Christ for judgement.. He will issue Judgement on the lost and reward the saved..
He says HE will be in Paradise ...
Ok, but we don’t know if Jonah was in three full 24 hour cycles or pieces of days. And Jesus was laid to rest as Sabbath (Friday night) was coming on.
I don’t mean to argue, just a friendly debate, my FRiend.
Some icon. Beautiful! I love that style.
read later
Hi John .
Indeed HIS BODY..which has just been raised from the grave for 3 days and had not yet ascended to the Father and it was His body she wanted to touch.. also interesting is He invited Thomas to touch Him...
The body, the physical Jesus was dead in the grave.. and had indeed not risen to the father ...BUT His Spirit never died.. He promised the thief that they would be together in Paradise that very day..now He was not speaking PHYSICALLY because His body was still in the grave until He rose ...He would not be physically present to the Father until He ascended into heaven physically
We have to remember here we are looking first at the spirit of Christ going to paradise with the spirit of the thief.. and then the ascension of the physical body of Christ into heaven... two different events..
The physical body of that thief still lays in the grave.. not to rise until the final judgement, as will all of our bodies
There is no scripture that implies or states that any "souls" were freed by Christ when He preached to the souls in Shoal. Also the greek word has a common meaning of prison.. but has a secondary meaning of "in a watch"... which would seem to imply a very different meaning if that was the translation ...that would make it sound more like the book of revelation where the martyrs are waiting and watching for God to take vengeance on the world,,
Because scripture leaves the meaning unclear.. we need to take what it says as it is and allow it to remain in the council of God ...but there is no suggestion that Christ was physically in Hell or shoal or the prison ..what ever we want to call it..
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